The Ref Stop

A couple of lines drawn by a 7 year old.

Yampy

Yampy

RefChat Addict
C'mon, you must know what I mean?

I even agree with Savage which is a personal disappointment.
 
The Ref Stop
Hope you can see the outstanding professionalism of those lines.
 

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BT? :X

Edit: I've just seen all the other pictures floating online. What is going on there?

And with the TV 'line' there's argument to say it wasn't offside. Oh dear, I don't think this looks very good.

Second edit: Actually the Tv Line looks so close, I wouldn't want to be the linesman tbh. :P
 
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Technology has obviously failed, that happens unfortunately. Somehow they have reached the correct conclusion as subsequent freeze frames show that Mata's knee was just ahead of any part of the defenders that can play the ball, but I think they got lucky as they didn't have the same images.
 
I've no problem with the goal being disallowed but is it a clear and obvious error by the assistant? In cricket, that would be classed as 'umpire's call' and the on field decision would have stood. But it's not cricket is it?
 
Yampy said:
I've no problem with the goal being disallowed but is it a clear and obvious error by the assistant? In cricket, that would be classed as 'umpire's call' and the on field decision would have stood. But it's not cricket is it?
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The clear and obvious criteria doesn't apply to offsides. The reason they have those guidelines is that fouls and penalties have an element of in the opinion of the referee, for example one referee may say a challenge is a penalty whereas another might say fair challenge.

The same can't be said for offside, it is black and white and either the player is onside or he is offside. Offsides aren't any different to goal line decisions, just as the ball being just a millimetre over the goal line makes it a goal, then Mata's knee being a millimetre ahead of the last defender makes him offside.
 
I agree, and there is no shaming any assistant referee for something like that! There is no way they can call sth like that in realtime.
 
Thing is though, at the angles and resolutions that are being used (or at least shown) it's not possible to accurately assess positions to the millimetre, and as a sport football shouldn't be getting involved in trying to do so. I *do* have a problem with the goal being disallowed - it was a good call and that should have been the end of it. This "trial" needs knocking on the head, and let the officials get on with it.
 
Its interesting England is experiencing the same stages of VAR experiment issues as Australia did.

VAR experiment looks good on paper, but we simply don't have the proper technology (at least not in place) to support it.

I did my own offside line and while it show Mata to be offside by millimetres it is not conclusive to be certain that at this frame Young actually touched(passed) the ball yet. In the next frame Mata is definitely on side.

We need a higher frame rate and better resolution for this. And the graphics used (mine or the VAR's) are not relabel either. When in doubt the benefit should go with the attacking team.

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I wonder whether the VAR is using the 4K video feed, on a 4K display... on something this close that could be the difference between right and wrong.
 
one said:
VAR experiment looks good on paper, but we simply don't have the proper technology (at least not in place) to support it.

I did my own offside line and while it show Mata to be offside by millimetres it is not conclusive to be certain that at this frame Young actually touched(passed) the ball yet. In the next frame Mata is definitely on side.

We need a higher frame rate and better resolution for this. And the graphics used (mine or the VAR's) are not relabel either. When in doubt the benefit should go with the attacking team.
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No, it needs to be binned. The beauty of football is the unadulterated joy that occurs when a goal is scored. This now botches the whole process and sucks the very life out of the magic that is football.

Pass goes across, goal scored, quick glance at linesman by supporters, flag is down, cue delirium. But NOOOOO!!! Lets sit about for 5 minutes while they check if 2 hairs on his front knee are in an offside position.

Was the call technically correct, probably. But no one in their right mind would complain about the linesman not flagging that in that instance.

The VAR is a farce.
 
Murri O said:
Was the call technically correct, probably. But no one in their right mind would complain about the linesman not flagging that in that instance.
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And to give him his due, David Wagner (the Huddersfield manager) said more or less the same thing. Even though the call went in favour of his team, he said he would have been perfectly OK with the goal being given and he feels that using the VAR for things like this destroys the emotion and the passion in the game, which is one of its best features.
 
RustyRef said:
The same can't be said for offside, it is black and white and either the player is onside or he is offside. Offsides aren't any different to goal line decisions, just as the ball being just a millimetre over the goal line makes it a goal
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But that's not quite true, is it? It isn't totally black and white - it depends on the technology being used. A slight difference in frame rate and/or resolution can make the difference, especially when were talking about millimetres. It's not the same as goal line technology either - that uses a battery of dedicated cameras fixed on a specific location, with only one moving object to consider and computer algorithms written specifically for that one purpose.

Offside decisions involving the VAR are using cameras that are not necessarily in the perfect location for the exact position on the pitch where the potential offside occurred and involve tracking at least four separate moving components (the offside-positioned player, the team mate, the ball and the second-last defender) and a human being deciding things such as which exact freeze frame to choose. Ultimately, anything involving human decision-making, which a VAR offside decision does, cannot be said to be absolutely black and white.
 
If we need to go to millimetres, then let's do away with it.......the offside law that is.....
 
This type of incident highlights one of my concerns about VAR (as a spectator as much as a referee). It was extremely tight, technically Mata does appear to have been offside but we run the risk of using and over analysing VAR for every decision. I'm just waiting for the first time it is called upon to decide a throw in on the half way line.
 
Peter Grove said:
But that's not quite true, is it? It isn't totally black and white - it depends on the technology being used. A slight difference in frame rate and/or resolution can make the difference, especially when were talking about millimetres.
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And when we are talking about millimetres it also depends on whether you take the decision point as when the the player making the pass first makes contact with the ball or when the contact ends. The contact usually last only about a hundreth of a second but a player can have moved a centimtre in that time...I know this sounds stupidly pedantic but that is the madness that trying to use VAR to get this sort of decision 100% correct produces. It's just not black and white.
 
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