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Joseph Proietti
Guest
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No, no, no and no again. You are the referee, not their parent. If parents are happy to see their children treated like that then that is for them. Do your job and don't go looking for trouble.
Ref-Al
Member
This in my view, would come under the training we receive on the safeguarding course. I would be contacting the safeguarding officer for the league and explain what you saw as it could be seen as abuse. I wouldn't of gone over and got involved, unless there was grounds for OFFINABUS or similar reason to remove him from the area of the field of play. I definitely wouldn't of gone and asked the parents, that's not what your there for as a referee in my view. If you as a person felt it was wrong, go down the safeguarding route and report it to the relative person after the game.
I'd have asked the coach for a quiet word, away from his players and others present. I'd have told him that his behaviour was unacceptable, that i would be reporting him for misconduct and that if i heard another negative peep out of him i'd be abandoning the match.
Management will be management - their methods are up to them.
However, there is a line that can be crossed. If shouting becomes personnel, abusive, towards you, or swearing becomes involved. Talk to the manager once, being concise and saying his behaviour is not acceptable, if he wishes to continue, you will be forced to ask them to leave the vicinity of the field of play.
If he continues, ask him to leave and the game will not restart until it does.
Be authoritative, polite and professional at all times, and that's all you have to do.
However, there is a line that can be crossed. If shouting becomes personnel, abusive, towards you, or swearing becomes involved. Talk to the manager once, being concise and saying his behaviour is not acceptable, if he wishes to continue, you will be forced to ask them to leave the vicinity of the field of play.
If he continues, ask him to leave and the game will not restart until it does.
Be authoritative, polite and professional at all times, and that's all you have to do.
Thus is not a safeguarding issue - please be very careful. Report maybe to league if you have a problem - but safeguarding is about avoiding physical, emotional, sexual, neglect etc. And no, children being shouted at about their performance, especially in front of their parents is not a child protection issue except in the most extreme circumstances.
Be careful - safeguarding is a Pandora's box once opened.
Be careful - safeguarding is a Pandora's box once opened.
So shouting and bawling at a child does not affect their emotional wellbeing?
Ref-Al
Member
"but most of them just said that's just X that's the way he is and of my son don't start playing better I will shout at him when he gets home."
Co Down Ref............ I'm going to have to disagree I'm afraid. We aren't talking about 16 year olds (even though they do fall under safeguarding) This is 10 and 11 year olds, still in primary school. With a coach and parents who are happy to shout at a kid if they "don't start playing better". That IS psychological / emotional abuse. If its serious enough that your considering going over to talk to both the coach and parents, then yes, you should be making a call. 99% of the time it will come to nothing, but that 1% it does......... could be the time something bigger gets uncovered. The whole point of safeguarding is NOT to shy away from it because it is a Pandora's box.
Co Down Ref............ I'm going to have to disagree I'm afraid. We aren't talking about 16 year olds (even though they do fall under safeguarding) This is 10 and 11 year olds, still in primary school. With a coach and parents who are happy to shout at a kid if they "don't start playing better". That IS psychological / emotional abuse. If its serious enough that your considering going over to talk to both the coach and parents, then yes, you should be making a call. 99% of the time it will come to nothing, but that 1% it does......... could be the time something bigger gets uncovered. The whole point of safeguarding is NOT to shy away from it because it is a Pandora's box.
I'm talking from a purely legal point of view - Brian, of course it has an affect. I work with dozens of kids on a daily basis on the child protection register. But going down that legal safeguarding route is something else and there's no turning back.
I couldn't disagree more. Like others have said this shouting at the children could be going on every week, and these sorts of degrading comments are what cause safeguarding issues. There is no need for these over dramatic di**heads to be shouting at young kids who are just trying to play football.
If it was me @Joseph Proietti, I would've probably asked him to calm down to try and make him more supportive of his team, if he gave me the same response as he gave you, i would be giving the league welfare officer a call, it doesn't have to be an official complaint, but a phone call does a lot of good in these cases. It could be worth just having an informal chat with the club welfare officer too.
It is definitely your job at junior football to be impartial when observing this and deciding whether any further action is needed, that is why the FA make you do a safeguarding course, so that you can be observant enough to spot this type of irresponsible behaviour and so that you know how to deal with it.
You cannot informally report a safeguarding issue. Once you've done it, it's done.
Not necessarily. You can call the safeguarding officer at the league and tell him basically what is in the OP and see whether he (being better trained/more qualified in this area of football) thinks it is something that needs formally reporting. Once it's formally reported there is no going back but until that point you are fine to talk it over with the right people.
Nope, wrong. Once you report it then it's reported and recorded. How they choose to pursue it is up to them.
Child protection is black and white, and rightly so.
Right, final words on this thread from me. Child abuse thrives on secrecy, whispers and hearsay but nothing being recorded and reported. Many sad occasions from Victoria Climbe through to Saville show us that. This is why child protection through (in UK) policy like the Children's Act and Every Child Matters place a strong duty on those allocated the role of designated officer for welfare and child protection to report suspected abuse to the appropriate agencies. Every concern or allegation (and subsequent response to such) must be recorded - there is no grey area.
DanCohen17
Simply The Best
It is not your job to decide whether this is a serious issue or not. If YOU feel it's a safeguarding children, you report it. If the superiors disagree, they'll thank you for your information and choose to ignore it.
As has been mentioned, you shouldn't have gone to the coach in that way and most definitely not the parents.
I'm a coach. It's what I do for work - it's my only job out here in USA. I work with 7-18 year olds. Am I hard on my younger ones? Yes. Am I openly critical? Yes. Do I demand the best out of them? Yes. Would some people dislike my manner around my u11 team? Yes.
Am I 'bullying' these kids? No. Am I emotionally hurting/embarrassing them? No. Have I had a parent, player, team manager, referee or club rep complain about my manner? No.
Every single child leaves every single session and game knowing they've worked hard, they've improved and that I, as coach, am happy with them. I ensure they feel like they're sky-high at "soccer".
Coaches that merely scream & shout at players do it because they have little-to-no knowledge of the game and are trying to deflect that.
Coaches that encourage, constructively criticise & give clear, concise information to their players are the ones who you don't have a problem with in this manner.
Report it. It shouldn't happen. The parents shouldn't be acceptant of it. The kids are not enjoying it and aren't playing well (6-0 shows that). Once you've reported, it's our your hands and no longer your problem.
As has been mentioned, you shouldn't have gone to the coach in that way and most definitely not the parents.
I'm a coach. It's what I do for work - it's my only job out here in USA. I work with 7-18 year olds. Am I hard on my younger ones? Yes. Am I openly critical? Yes. Do I demand the best out of them? Yes. Would some people dislike my manner around my u11 team? Yes.
Am I 'bullying' these kids? No. Am I emotionally hurting/embarrassing them? No. Have I had a parent, player, team manager, referee or club rep complain about my manner? No.
Every single child leaves every single session and game knowing they've worked hard, they've improved and that I, as coach, am happy with them. I ensure they feel like they're sky-high at "soccer".
Coaches that merely scream & shout at players do it because they have little-to-no knowledge of the game and are trying to deflect that.
Coaches that encourage, constructively criticise & give clear, concise information to their players are the ones who you don't have a problem with in this manner.
Report it. It shouldn't happen. The parents shouldn't be acceptant of it. The kids are not enjoying it and aren't playing well (6-0 shows that). Once you've reported, it's our your hands and no longer your problem.
I have been in this very situation as a parent a few years ago
Managers should not be allowed to shout and scream at kids any more ! and if the manager has been on rhe safegaurding children course he would not be doing it .
Any Manager who still behaves in the manner at that level should not be doing the job !
NO EXCUSES ...
Managers should not be allowed to shout and scream at kids any more ! and if the manager has been on rhe safegaurding children course he would not be doing it .
Any Manager who still behaves in the manner at that level should not be doing the job !
NO EXCUSES ...
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
- Yes, it is a potential child protection issue
- It would have to be really, really over the top for me to even think about intervening - ie pretty clearly abuse, highly disparaging remarks. I've refereed some screamy youth coaches before, but that's not enough to warrant referee intervention. Thinking 'that's a bit over the top for this age' doesn't cut it. Hard to tell if the OP was justified in his concern or not
-The manner in which you approached the coach probably wasn't the best - sounds like you did come off as telling him how to coach. 'Hey coach, let's just tone done the shouting a bit and keep it constructive' would probably have been sufficient. If he blows up at you then you can escalate it a bit further and advise that any further outbursts will result in his dismissal, then return to the field before he has the chance to respond. Try to consider the emotional state he's in - he probably (well, clearly, given the way he approaches his players) has no idea how to coach but is frustrated at his repeated poor performance, but thinks he's doing everything he can. Your choice of words probably came across as a personal criticism, even condescending (it wasn't, but look at it from the mindset of somebody already frustrated at his own poor performance but unable/unwilling to take responsibility for it)
-Well, you already know approaching the parents was a mistake
- It would have to be really, really over the top for me to even think about intervening - ie pretty clearly abuse, highly disparaging remarks. I've refereed some screamy youth coaches before, but that's not enough to warrant referee intervention. Thinking 'that's a bit over the top for this age' doesn't cut it. Hard to tell if the OP was justified in his concern or not
-The manner in which you approached the coach probably wasn't the best - sounds like you did come off as telling him how to coach. 'Hey coach, let's just tone done the shouting a bit and keep it constructive' would probably have been sufficient. If he blows up at you then you can escalate it a bit further and advise that any further outbursts will result in his dismissal, then return to the field before he has the chance to respond. Try to consider the emotional state he's in - he probably (well, clearly, given the way he approaches his players) has no idea how to coach but is frustrated at his repeated poor performance, but thinks he's doing everything he can. Your choice of words probably came across as a personal criticism, even condescending (it wasn't, but look at it from the mindset of somebody already frustrated at his own poor performance but unable/unwilling to take responsibility for it)
-Well, you already know approaching the parents was a mistake
All parents may not of been there.
Some of the parents may not of been happy.
absolutely nothing wrong reporting this.... if anything, they will forward or sign post you to the correct agency....
Monotone Whistle
Well-Known Member
I think you were right to deal with it, just your method of dealing with it was a bit misguided.
Get the coach over for a quiet word, tell him your concerns and what it could lead to and go from there. I mentored a ref this year who was in the same situation, and I advised him exactly that. Got dealt with and second half of the game was happier as a result.
Get the coach over for a quiet word, tell him your concerns and what it could lead to and go from there. I mentored a ref this year who was in the same situation, and I advised him exactly that. Got dealt with and second half of the game was happier as a result.