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5-4 first report

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One of the things I've thought about is with CARs is do I need to go over to the halfway line to do the substitution procedure as I did when I was doing 6-5? On 5-4 there'd usually be NARs (I have a step 6 middle next week for example) and therefore I'm just taking names and not going over to do kit inspection etc at each time but I'm not sure how to approach this with CARs?

Also, fulfilling the criteria of "pre match instructions with ARs" is a bit of a difficult one as I'd usually go for a very brief "offsides and throw ins only", but when I have NARs I obviously I do a full pre match chat.

Thoughts?

Depends on the observer really. Personally, if the referee is on their own I don't expect, or even want to see, them going over to the touchline to supervise substitutions. In doing so he will be leaving 22 players behind his back, and for me it isn't a priority. I'd like to see it supervised, but they can do that from distance and get the player coming on to come to them to take their name.

As for briefing assistants, probably safe to assume you will be getting a 3 in that section. Even if you brief CARs well, it is very unlikely they will do something outstanding that can be attributed to your briefing. That said, if they did I would certainly be giving you credit.
 
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2 clearly extremely knowledgeably referees who are level 4 and above who've been through the process have 2 different ideas and expectations. It really is a lottery isn't it on whether you do what the observer wants or doesn't want.

What would be excellent would be if the observer asked you why you did something. I could then explain why and that I'm aware of the other way of doing things but I did it the other way because......

I saw an observer do this with a referee I lined with a few weeks ago and I thought that was excellent.
 
My advice is to referee every game as though there is an observer there, or referee every game as though there is not an observer there.
You are not there to guess what the observer may wish to see, as the answer to that is in the 5>4 observer guidance.
Do the job you're there for, to manage and control the game, and bring it to a safe conclusion.
If you try to change your game because there is an observer, you are adding unnecessary pressure on yourself.
The observer is likely to ask why you did something in a particular incident, so he/she can understand your thinking. Just be honest.
Good luck!
 
My advice is to referee every game as though there is an observer there, or referee every game as though there is not an observer there.
You are not there to guess what the observer may wish to see, as the answer to that is in the 5>4 observer guidance.
Do the job you're there for, to manage and control the game, and bring it to a safe conclusion.
If you try to change your game because there is an observer, you are adding unnecessary pressure on yourself.
The observer is likely to ask why you did something in a particular incident, so he/she can understand your thinking. Just be honest.
Good luck!

Agreed. I dont change my game when an observer is there, I'm not good enough to. I work on repetition to try and get better. It's just the formalities and box ticking stuff I want to make sure I don't lose silly marks on. The game will be what it will be, I won't even think about it beforehand. But its the ceremonial stuff that seems to occupy my mind before an observation. Now I think about it even if I'm an AR I think more about the kit check and keeping a full game record when I'm senior etc than I do the game. I think it stems from playing sport all my life. Once the whistle goes its just another game.
 
look at it this way.

If you go over and manage the substitution process (and face the FOP whilst doing so) what do you possibly lose? Nothing.

If you don't manage them, what can you lose? In the vast majority of cases nothing, but there could be an issue with jewellery (especially at Step 7), or you could have an observer that will find a way of marking you down (or not marking you up) because of it.
 
There's no harm in speaking to the observer before the game to try and get a view of what they expect. Perhaps mention that it is difficult to manage substitutes when you are on your own and see what they say. The days of them hiding behind trees or in cars are thankfully gone, and most will be happy to chat about refereeing before the game. It happens at senior levels, one now sadly departed PGMOL observer used to tell officials that he had a hatred of assistants mirroring referee's foul signals, so you knew full well that unless you were giving the foul to keep your flag down.
 
Went well enough. No mention of substitutions etc in the briefing but I did the full procedure and looked at the field of play whenever possible. 25 degrees out there today and its a local derby. 3 lemons, 0 cherries. I think I'll get a decent enough mark but nothing special. Sausage and chips afterwards was epic.
 
And that's the most important part - nothing having anything after the game to worry about.

I am a very simple man. Sausage and chips after the game and a pint in the cricket club I play at on the way home.

Sunday League this morning. No chips but promised to take the Mrs for a Sunday Roast at the pub with the match fee....
 
Are the observers still hiding until either half/full time or has this practice stopped?

Many years ago there was one assessor who did not even speak to you at fulltime! How times have changed.
 
Are the observers still hiding until either half/full time or has this practice stopped?

Many years ago there was one assessor who did not even speak to you at fulltime! How times have changed.
Observers have to make contact pre matchday and announce arrival on matchday.
 
Am i right to think observers are mainly consistent or are there still gaps?
As with referees, there are some good, some bad and some middle of the road.
Some are hot in dissent, some are hot on the position of throw ins..

In the main once you get to supply/contrib the standard increases as does consistency.
 
Are the observers still hiding until either half/full time or has this practice stopped?

Many years ago there was one assessor who did not even speak to you at fulltime! How times have changed.

Only had 4 observations since I took up the whistle but yesterday he introduced himself to me briefly and then said we'd chat outside after the game which we did (we had email comms earlier in the week). Seemed a decent chap, feedback was to the point. I haven't had a negative experience with an observer to be honest. Contradictions in development points but I've learnt to not care about things you cant influence. But every interaction I've had with an observer as a ref has been a positive experience.

My first ever game as an official was on the line and the ref was being observed and was unfairly hammered by an observer who was incorrect in law with the KMI's (which weren't even debatable, simple DOGSO and a red card for violent conduct) and was just spouting nonsense. Ref in tears in the changing room afterwards. I did wonder wtf I'd signed up for. But no issues at all since game 1 (now on game 223).
 
It is vastly better than it was 10+ years ago. When I went 6 to 5 I can remember refereeing a game where there was no one there expect players and coaches. I got a phone call that evening to do a "debrief" from someone who had assessed me, he simply was not there and unless he was up a tree he can only have watched it from his car in the car cark some 30 metres away. He had no idea who I had cautioned, and even talked about a missed caution for a player who I had not only cautioned, he had been sent off as it was his second.

That just doesn't happen these days.
 
It is vastly better than it was 10+ years ago. When I went 6 to 5 I can remember refereeing a game where there was no one there expect players and coaches. I got a phone call that evening to do a "debrief" from someone who had assessed me, he simply was not there and unless he was up a tree he can only have watched it from his car in the car cark some 30 metres away. He had no idea who I had cautioned, and even talked about a missed caution for a player who I had not only cautioned, he had been sent off as it was his second.

That just doesn't happen these days.
This just sounds like he has watched a game, not realising he was watching the wrong one, perhaps.
Highlights the importance of pre matchday and matchday contact.
 
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It is vastly better than it was 10+ years ago. When I went 6 to 5 I can remember refereeing a game where there was no one there expect players and coaches. I got a phone call that evening to do a "debrief" from someone who had assessed me, he simply was not there and unless he was up a tree he can only have watched it from his car in the car cark some 30 metres away. He had no idea who I had cautioned, and even talked about a missed caution for a player who I had not only cautioned, he had been sent off as it was his second.

That just doesn't happen these days.

Incredible. I imagine there's been alot of observations from cars on cold/wet nights in the past. It's out of order.

Ive mentioned this on here before but the game I'm referring too was refereed very well imo. The DOGSO red was as easy as you like. It's was with the DOGSO rules 4/5 years ago and the striker went round the keeper who grabbed his ankle and pulled him down. He didn't even argue it, he'd taken one for the team as it was 0-0. The observer said a yellow would've sufficed which was completely incorrect in law. The red for violent conduct was very simple. Open palmed slap in the face which gave the recipient a rather large egg around his eye instantly. I dont think the observer saw it to be honest as I'd seen him walk past me 10 seconds earlier with his deckchair to move out of the sun. He said the ref shouldve gone yellow.

But what really struck me was the tone of his debrief. Hyper critical, condescending and just generally negative. It just didn't reflect the game and even though it was my first experience of officiating (and obviously being observed) I could tell that the observer was a bit 'different'.
 
Would rather no debrief that one where the report bears little to no relation to it or indeed the game.

A few smiling assassins about.
 
Incredible. I imagine there's been alot of observations from cars on cold/wet nights in the past. It's out of order.

Ive mentioned this on here before but the game I'm referring too was refereed very well imo. The DOGSO red was as easy as you like. It's was with the DOGSO rules 4/5 years ago and the striker went round the keeper who grabbed his ankle and pulled him down. He didn't even argue it, he'd taken one for the team as it was 0-0. The observer said a yellow would've sufficed which was completely incorrect in law. The red for violent conduct was very simple. Open palmed slap in the face which gave the recipient a rather large egg around his eye instantly. I dont think the observer saw it to be honest as I'd seen him walk past me 10 seconds earlier with his deckchair to move out of the sun. He said the ref shouldve gone yellow.

But what really struck me was the tone of his debrief. Hyper critical, condescending and just generally negative. It just didn't reflect the game and even though it was my first experience of officiating (and obviously being observed) I could tell that the observer was a bit 'different'.

Too many old farts out there who think being a "Guardian Of Standards" means the ref should be doing what they think is right and not necessarily as per the LOTG. Observations are a box-ticking exercise which, depending on the nature of the game can give you a high or "complied" mark. When I observe that's what I do. Observe and record. It's not about trying to trip people up or catch them out.
Some of the observers I've met on the circuit should be tucked up at home with a warm blanket over their legs and a hot milky drink - not stood/sat anywhere near a football match ... :rolleyes:
 
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