4th Observation 7 to 6

[ladbroke8745]

Match itself went well. Controlled it very well without once seemingly losing it.

But issues that bugged me, certainly once I knew I was observed.

First off...
Before the game.
Due to traffic players were running late. And so was an assistant of mine. Crash on M25 causing this. Been asked to delay 5-10 minutes which was agreed.
But keeper from away side still struggling to arrive for that time so they made a change prior to leaving dressing room. He arrived as we started walking out. Told him he has 2 minutes to get changed.
Requested match balls from home side to be told they've already taken them to dugout. That's not helpful. They wouldn't get them so said I'll grab it off them when we go out. None were suitable to start with so game further delayed.
They also failed to get corner flags out at start of match. The host club locked cupboard and didn't have access until the 6th minute of the game, having agreed to start.

KMI dealt with.
Positioning and signals fantastic apparently.

Just one thing that was brought up. Why did I not send off home full back. Already on caution I had a further chat/warning, twice. Both incidents for me were not even chatting material but he said considering already on a card, he probably should have gone for persistent.

After 3 above standards, I'm now expecting my first standard, and that's assuming he is ignoring the pre match stuff.

The clash itself was a local derby, U23 semi pro development league match which has been known to get a bit feisty. Observer was very surprised I was on it as a 7 going for 6 when he would normally expect a 5 to 4 on it. This is why he wanted to come to watch it and see how I handled it.

 

[RobOda]

Fingers crossed it'll be a good report.

 

[Padfoot]

Just one thing that was brought up. Why did I not send off home full back. Already on caution I had a further chat/warning, twice. Both incidents for me were not even chatting material but he said considering already on a card, he probably should have gone for persistent.

If they weren’t ‘chatting material’ for you.....why did you have ‘a further chat/warning twice’?

If you didn’t feel they worth escalating, which is what you’ve done by chatting/warning, then just give the fk and move on.
By escalating you’ve drawn the observers attention to the incidents and given them cause to ask the question about PI.

Sometimes we do ask questions just to see your thinking rather than trying to catch you out.

 

[alexgr]

Doesn’t sound terrible, having 3 above standards isn’t a bad place to be at all!

Only piece of advice which has saved me before is do your pre match inspection well in advance of the match - could this have stopped the whole corner flags debacle?

 

[PinnerPaul]

Sounds like you did OK mate - the pre match stuff can be a pain. You must be doing well, because observer is correct, I AR on U23s and referees are always 5s or 4s.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Agree with Yoda, If it's not worth a chat, then dont
Two fouls tho after a yellow and he must have been close to a second yo in at least the observers head tho.

 

[QuaverRef]

Corner flags are compulsory - The game shouldn't have started without them. The delays don't sound like your fault though so shouldn't worry about that

 

[JH]

Corner flags are compulsory - The game shouldn't have started without them. The delays don't sound like your fault though so shouldn't worry about that

"unless there are safety issues, the referee should allow a game to start/continue if:
• one or more corner flags is missing
• there is a minor inaccuracy with the markings on the field of play such as the corner area, centre circle etc.
• the goal posts/crossbar are not white
In such cases, the referee should, with the agreement of the teams, play/continue the match and must submit a report to the appropriate authorities."

 

[JH]

Just one thing that was brought up. Why did I not send off home full back. Already on caution I had a further chat/warning, twice. Both incidents for me were not even chatting material but he said considering already on a card, he probably should have gone for persistent.

I don't understand? You had a further chat twice but for you they weren't even chatting material?

I've fallen on the wrong side of this too, when you give a player a clear warning, an observer expects you to follow it up using the stepped approach. Only warn if you are going to go one further next time. I thought I was being proactive once by encouraging a keeper to speed up at goal kicks as the other team were getting frustrated - turns out, to the observer, it just came across as I warned him about 4 times, which obviously looks like I was not willing to follow through and made me look weak.

 

[PinnerPaul]

On the Persistent Infringement - if a player is cautioned for it, - lets say its 3 fouls in fairly quick succession - is the 'foul count' reset as it were or are we saying the next foul is worth a yellow for persistent infringement again?

My own view is that having been punished for it with one yellow, the player has to then commit another 'pattern' of PI to be cautioned again.

If that makes any sense whatsoever - do you agree or not?l

 

[PinnerPaul]

I don't understand? You had a further chat twice but for you they weren't even chatting material?

I've fallen on the wrong side of this too, when you give a player a clear warning, an observer expects you to follow it up using the stepped approach. Only warn if you are going to go one further next time. I thought I was being proactive once by encouraging a keeper to speed up at goal kicks as the other team were getting frustrated - turns out, to the observer, it just came across as I warned him about 4 times, which obviously looks like I was not willing to follow through and made me look weak.

Don't worry about the GK thing, a certain referee in the Championship warned the GK about 6 times without any card but yes he DID look weak!

 

[Russell Jones]

On the Persistent Infringement - if a player is cautioned for it, - lets say its 3 fouls in fairly quick succession - is the 'foul count' reset as it were or are we saying the next foul is worth a yellow for persistent infringement again?

My own view is that having been punished for it with one yellow, the player has to then commit another 'pattern' of PI to be cautioned again.

If that makes any sense whatsoever - do you agree or not?l

I agree .. a PI caution resets the foul clock to zero

 

[PinnerPaul]

I agree .. a PI caution resets the foul clock to zero

Thanks Russell & to expand that, a player commits a careless foul and then later a reckless one earning a yellow for that, are we then looking at his next foul or two earning a 2nd caution for PI or are we once again saying slate is wiped clean with the first yellow?

Thanks again

 

[QuaverRef]

"unless there are safety issues, the referee should allow a game to start/continue if:
• one or more corner flags is missing
• there is a minor inaccuracy with the markings on the field of play such as the corner area, centre circle etc.
• the goal posts/crossbar are not white
In such cases, the referee should, with the agreement of the teams, play/continue the match and must submit a report to the appropriate authorities."

Another classic LOTG contradiction

 

[Russell Jones]

@PinnerPaul

This second one is a bit more marginal IMO. Personally, even if I've publicly warned a player for PI, if his next tackle is reckless and therefore deserving of a straight yellow, that still wipes the slate (fairly) clean. Guess though that he'd be firmly on my radar and another couple of careless fouls would probably see me having a word with him and his captain making it obvious that he's treading a very fine line (without the need for conspicuously pointing to any areas of the pitch!)

 

[Big Cat]

It's common to have pre-match issus in parks football, but given the slightly higher standard of this game, i might have expected better. I'm guessing that observers pay equal attention to stuff either side of KO. Sounds like you're well thought of at L7 and heading in the direction i'm aspiring towards

 

[GraemeS]

@PinnerPaul

This second one is a bit more marginal IMO. Personally, even if I've publicly warned a player for PI, if his next tackle is reckless and therefore deserving of a straight yellow, that still wipes the slate (fairly) clean. Guess though that he'd be firmly on my radar and another couple of careless fouls would probably see me having a word with him and his captain making it obvious that he's treading a very fine line (without the need for conspicuously pointing to any areas of the pitch!)

And to hijack Paul's thread, if a player's been on a warning and then dissents something else, does that yellow reset the foul count at all?

 

[JamesL]

I agree .. a PI caution resets the foul clock to zero

Not sure about zero. I think he gets maybe 2-3 chances instead of 3/4.
That said no pattern or number of fouls constitutes persistent infringement so it all depends on the game. If he continues fouling after the card then he gets the short fuse but if they are further apart than got the card or later in the game I might ease up on him/her.

 

[ladbroke8745]

The chats weren't public chats. He was only one making a wall (wide free kicks) so as I paced him out, first occasion is just be careful with his arm coming out to block the ball (given handball, which he accepted). Second was a challenge that generally wouldn't be a chat so as I paced him out I reminded him he was on a yellow and not to draw me to him again.
But this was seen as I was continuing to give him warnings but wasn't actually the case. Trying to manage him than penalise. He didn't do anything after.
As for the corner flags, I did pre match, which is how I noticed it in first place. But I was naive to think at that level theyd go and do it. I found out half time it was because they couldn't get to them but forgot to tell me that the guy was on his way. I also forgot to double check myself. Silly error, rectified very quickly.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Not sure about zero. I think he gets maybe 2-3 chances instead of 3/4.
That said no pattern or number of fouls constitutes persistent infringement so it all depends on the game. If he continues fouling after the card then he gets the short fuse but if they are further apart than got the card or later in the game I might ease up on him/her.

Agree, if taking a PI, then, lets say he has had 2 minor nothing fouls, a warning for the 3rd then a caution for the 4th
You think am allowing him 7/8 fouls and still being on the park!!!!!!!????????
Check the team stats for some games, some teams don't concede 8 fouls in total !!!!!!!