Speaking as a referee who is quite happy to manage (with a quiet or not so quiet word) a 'FFS Ref!' if it isn't shouted - or even an immediate 'Oh F off' after a decision it is clear that we all deal with these things differently. I'm quite happy to take the criticism that such outbursts should always result in cards but will also maintain the view that if I can manage things in a stepped fashion that is far more preferable.
35 seconds
- Thread starter Brian Hamilton
- Start date
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
I'm going to have to agree with @Brian Hamilton actions here.
in my opinion (based on the events described by Mr Hamilton) ... the player has given a bit of stick and has received a caution for his troubles - he has then walked away and said another comment ... in my view, why does this deserve another caution? they are 10 minutes into a cup clash, the adrenaline is immediate ... I simple 'chat' is suffice to me, as it is to others it seems
in my opinion (based on the events described by Mr Hamilton) ... the player has given a bit of stick and has received a caution for his troubles - he has then walked away and said another comment ... in my view, why does this deserve another caution? they are 10 minutes into a cup clash, the adrenaline is immediate ... I simple 'chat' is suffice to me, as it is to others it seems
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
It was U 16, so presumably only 30 seconds into the match?
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
do apoligise you are probably correct @PinnerPaul (also relates to the thread title too!)
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
No worries, just adds to the "mitigating circumstances" to those of us that dare to take those into consideration.
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
in that case I now, apologise for any inconvenience I've caused by detailing the incorrect time frame of which the offence occurred in the game.
As a relatively new referee, i take the same approach as BH, and had something similar to his situation last sunday, i decided to manage it, untill he gave me another reason for a S7(late reckless challenge, advantage resulting in goal scored).
@Brian Hamilton I must say Brian the way you describe how the incident panned out I would be finding it very hard to keep the second yellow in my pocket .... Probably more so from a petulant teenager than otherwise
He must have caught you in a good mood ?
35 seconds
It was a single word, "Joke" spoken with his back to me from 5 yards. I heard it, his manager heard and his team mates heard it. I've been called worse.@Brian Hamilton I must say Brian the way you describe how the incident panned out I would be finding it very hard to keep the second yellow in my pocket .... Probably more so from a petulant teenager than otherwise
He must have caught you in a good mood ?
Yea but its still a tempter
nothing wrong with a bit of common sense brian and i personally would use a very similar approach. i come on here for advice but when i see people calling other referees and ramming a book down their throat it reminds me of everything thats wrong with the game and makes me not want to bother reading this anymore.
Only if in a really bad mood and I'd had my buttons pressed a lot during the game.Yea but its still a tempter
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Well, the clear answer as to 'why does this deserve another caution' is because he's committed a clear cautionable offence by committing public and personal dissent.
It's a funny comment - why does it deserve a second caution? I mean, why is the obligation on the referee to be more lenient to players on a caution rather than on the player to be really careful about their behaviour? If you read my dissent rant in General Chat you'd understand why I think this sort of attitude is a massive problem with the game. Having said that, if it ws said otherwise would it be a borderline card or a clear card? A 'second yellow' should only turn into a 'non-yellow' for a borderline card, and even then it's only arguable (although if anything, the existence of a first card should make the second card more likely, not less likely).
I think this sort of comment comes down to personal tolerance levels really. Like saying 'f*** off' after a decision - which I can't imagine how that could ever be less than a yellow, but obviously others disagree.
But it's also how we're reading what's being written. Now Brian has said that the player walked off and just said 'joke'. Personally, I think this is different to what was originally stated. 'You're a joke' is a clear, intentional personal attack. 'Joke', not so much. Was he saying the referee was a joke, or the decision? Regardless it didn't seem as directed at the referee, so a warning sounds much more appropriate with this new information to me.
This is a point I have made many times HM. Sometimes hard to convey through the written word and also just as easy to misinterpret.
If you read the OP I said he called me a joke. I didn't give the detail of the use of the word "joke" before.
"You're a joke."?? Come on guys, let's grow a slightly thicker skin here. This isn't a caution. It's a minor explosion of frustration. Now if there'd been an adjective beginning with an "f" in front of the noun, it would be a different matter. Seems to me Brian has handled the situation well. I don't believe an assessor would criticise him for managing things effectively. And Padfoot, sounds like you're very angry before you even take to the FOP. Maybe you wouldn't invite these guys to the pub for a drink, but teenagers are angry with everyone.
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Public, Personal or Persistent are the 3 main things we look at for dissent. 'You're a ______' is personal, he's made the effort to make it a personal attack (now we know that's not how it was worded here, but as a response to your post). Perhaps you're setting your tolerance level a bit too high.