A&H

2 match incidents - Penalty for a high foot and low head and confrontation from a sub off the pitch

Mada

Active Member
A couple of incidents from today which I’d love to hear your thoughts on.

The first incident happened from a corner. The ball gets sent in to the penalty area and the attacker drops his head slightly for a header (it was brave but I wonder if he’d do that again) and the defender kicks him in the face under the eye. The attacker will have a nice black eye tomorrow and there was a small cut. No contact on the ball but clear contact on the attacker. I blew very quickly for a penalty even though only the attacker who got kicked appealed. The only person to complain was the defender who said his head was too low. I agree it probably was but nonetheless he didn’t get the ball. The game ended 4-2 and the penalty didn’t change the game but did make the last 20 minutes a closer contest.

Incident number two was a tackle coming in from the white team which I judged to be a yellow for a late reckless tackle after the melee (no punches or anything thrown). It fizzled out after 30 seconds during which I blew my whistle loudly and one of the goalkeepers acted as peacemaker. However, the captain of the white team was unhappy that one of the subs of the opposing team came on to the pitch during the melee and got involved in the confrontation. I think I may have got this one wrong as in hindsight I wish I had cautioned the substitute for entering the field of play without permission which would have been a slam dunk. Would this have been the right approach? Other than entering the pitch he didn’t do much else wrong, no accusations of anything other than arguing with an opposing team player but he shouldn’t have been on the pitch. I was told by the captain I had bottled the decision, at the time there was so much going on that I focused on dealing with the tackle that started it and therefore overlooked the actions of the sub.
 
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1. I think you got it right. If the defender had pulled back to avoid kicking the attacker in the head, you might have had an IFK coming out for PIADM. But the defender didn’t, and carelessly kicked an opponent in the head. As always, you have to see these, but as described, I probably would have at least cautioned the defender for the reckless play.

2. Absolutely, positively caution the sub for coming onto the field during a confrontation. Again, have to be there and your description is limited, but I’m surprised that something that required a player as peacemaker didn’t result in a caution for anyone as part of the initial blow up. It seems likely to me that you missed out on one or two players who should have been cautioned for starting it, as well as the sub. (Aside—getting to a reckless tackle quickly can sometimes avoid these—especially if you blow loudly and get the card out early so the players know you’re taking care of it.)
 
I don't like subs getting involved in confrontations. I once cautioned a sub for entering the field of play without permission then immediately showed him another yellow for adopting an aggressive attitude. Needless to say he was stunned.
 
Point one is a real annoyance of mine from players. There’s seemingly this myth of a law going around that if a player ducks to head the ball he’s allowed to be kicked in the head.
 
1. Yep a pen. I have to see but a player getting kicked in the face (even with a low head) and being cut sounds very much like SFP to me.

2. The only time I am willing to possibly ignore entering without permission from a sub in a mass cons is if he is pulling his own players away and has absolutely nothing to do with opponents. Also as mentioned above, your description sound like a decent size mass con and the least would have to be a caution each side, usually the two who started it.
 
Thanks everyone. Sounds like I got the first one correct and some room for improvement on the second incident which I’ll work on next time it happens.
 
Mass confrontations are the hardest to deal with, especially if you're there on your own. My approach now is to give a few loud blasts and get the book out early so everyone knows you are going to deal with it. I identify a player from each team - ideally the ones who started it but otherwise anyone who is getting involved - and anyone else (normally the keeper) who's rushed in from 40 yards away. In your case, that would be the sub.
 
An admin question on mass cons, more so aimed at Scottish refs. What are you cautioning that under? This probably wont make a difference but always good to know.
I assume English refs would be AA.

would it probably just be B1L?

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1 - The player having his head low does not mean that the defender can kick him in the face. The defender's inability to predict that the attacker will move into that space is not the attacker's fault.

2 - Yes, the substitute who entered the FOP should have been cautioned for doing so. Ideally, you could find a player on White to caution as well for something silly that might have occurred in the melee.
 
Just reread this one. Surely the low head is playing in a dangerous manner and occurs before the kick to the face? Therefore, the correct restart would be a defensive indirect free kick; the defender can still be cautioned or sent-off for the kick.
 
Just reread this one. Surely the low head is playing in a dangerous manner and occurs before the kick to the face? Therefore, the correct restart would be a defensive indirect free kick; the defender can still be cautioned or sent-off for the kick.

It is not surely PIADM. It can be, but isn't necessarily. It is one of those "you had to be there" calls. As you point out, though, it is still completely justified to punish the defender for his misconduct (in this case, SFP). Still, there is good reason to suggest that the attacker's offense (PIADM) occurs at the same time as the defender's (assuming the defender attempt to kick the ball at the same time the attacker attempts to head it) and, therefore, the more serious of the two offences is to be punished. This explanation also saves you from having to explain why the defender is sent off but the restart is a IDK going the other way.
 
Just reread this one. Surely the low head is playing in a dangerous manner and occurs before the kick to the face? Therefore, the correct restart would be a defensive indirect free kick; the defender can still be cautioned or sent-off for the kick.
I can see where you’re coming from, but it’ll take a brave ref to award a foul against somebody who just got kicked in the face when it sounds like they’ve gone in at maybe shoulder level judging by the OP
 
Just reread this one. Surely the low head is playing in a dangerous manner and occurs before the kick to the face? Therefore, the correct restart would be a defensive indirect free kick; the defender can still be cautioned or sent-off for the kick.

If the attacker pulls back to avoid kicking a low ball because of the low head, then it's PIADM; if the defender chooses to take the risk of kicking the opponent in the head, and does kick him in the head, it is a DFK for kicking and almost certainly at least a caution.
 
As per law 12, PIADM requires "preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury." This did not prevent anything.
 
A couple of incidents from today which I’d love to hear your thoughts on.

The first incident happened from a corner. The ball gets sent in to the penalty area and the attacker drops his head slightly for a header (it was brave but I wonder if he’d do that again) and the defender kicks him in the face under the eye. The attacker will have a nice black eye tomorrow and there was a small cut. No contact on the ball but clear contact on the attacker. I blew very quickly for a penalty even though only the attacker who got kicked appealed. The only person to complain was the defender who said his head was too low. I agree it probably was but nonetheless he didn’t get the ball. The game ended 4-2 and the penalty didn’t change the game but did make the last 20 minutes a closer contest.

Incident number two was a tackle coming in from the white team which I judged to be a yellow for a late reckless tackle after the melee (no punches or anything thrown). It fizzled out after 30 seconds during which I blew my whistle loudly and one of the goalkeepers acted as peacemaker. However, the captain of the white team was unhappy that one of the subs of the opposing team came on to the pitch during the melee and got involved in the confrontation. I think I may have got this one wrong as in hindsight I wish I had cautioned the substitute for entering the field of play without permission which would have been a slam dunk. Would this have been the right approach? Other than entering the pitch he didn’t do much else wrong, no accusations of anything other than arguing with an opposing team player but he shouldn’t have been on the pitch. I was told by the captain I had bottled the decision, at the time there was so much going on that I focused on dealing with the tackle that started it and therefore overlooked the actions of the sub.

Judging by what you've said:

The first incident sounds like the correct decision. Certainly a penalty and possibly worthy of a caution for unsporting behaviour (dangerous play).

As for the second incident, you could've cautioned the substitute for entering the FOP without your permission but overall, it sounds like you dealt with the incident well. It's not easy when you're by yourself.
 
As per law 12, PIADM requires "preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury." This did not prevent anything.
Not so.

"Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury." - Law 12


Swap the word "includes" for "involves" and your interpretation would be indisputably correct. However, as written, preventing a nearby player from playing the ball for fear of injury is just one example of playing in a dangerous manner.
 
Not so.

"Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury." - Law 12


Swap the word "includes" for "involves" and your interpretation would be indisputably correct. However, as written, preventing a nearby player from playing the ball for fear of injury is just one example of playing in a dangerous manner.

This is one of the unresolved debates. (I suspect searching this forum will find at least one long debate on this.)

What @one wrote was clearly the understanding of PIADM before the language was awkwardly re-written. When the language changed, there was not an explanation that it was intending to remove that concept. Unfortunately, the language used by IFAB is awkward with either meaning. So far as I know, there is no official answer from IFAB as to which reading is correct.

As I picture the play described, I have a PK and a card.
 
Not so.

"Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury." - Law 12


Swap the word "includes" for "involves" and your interpretation would be indisputably correct. However, as written, preventing a nearby player from playing the ball for fear of injury is just one example of playing in a dangerous manner.
I can see where you are coming from but I challenge your logic there. Replacing includes with involves does make my interpretation ' indisputably' correct. However not replacing it does not make it incorrect. Lets say it is correct but you can dispute it :D (see what i did there)

By the way replace the words "and includes preventing" with the words "or prevents" and you'd be indisputably correct. :)

@socal lurker, the longest debate around the use of the word 'includes' i can remember was in the context of TD. A quick search on the lotg shows many uses of it which can be interpreted either way. Perhaps lotg written in other languages may clarify this.
 
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If the attacker dives to head a ball on the ground and gets caught in the head, I'm not giving a penalty.
Conversely, if he's standing upright and gets kicked in the head, it's an obvious penalty.

So the question then is only down to where you draw the line. That can vary, depending on what's going on with the player in question - for example, if he's already stumbling/falling, the decision to go for a stomach-high ball with his head is a little more reasonable than if he'd just decided to do it for no obvious reason. And if in doubt, favour the player who got kicked in the head!
 
I am not so in line with making black and withe statements what you would do is this or that (given this context).
If I know you are not going to penalise me for going for the ball as hard as I can without thinking about the consequence of my actions, when an opponent is going for a header, the chances are I am going to go for it.

I have said this before in a similar context. Same situation but the defender uses his leg to kick the ball. The attacker kicks the defender's leg. Just because the defender is using his head does not make the kick legal. If anything it makes it less legal. If the attacker pulls out I'd likely penalise the defender but if that is not the case then I am going to penalise the one who committed the more dangerous act which is likely to be the attacker.
 
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