A&H

2 fouls by the same player

John White

John White

New Member
Level 7 Referee
I had an incident in one of my matches, when Red #6 made a late tackle on Blue #4, but the ball broke kindly for blues so I played advantage. Red #6 then caught up with play, and made another late tackle on another blue player, which I gave a free kick for.

I booked him for the second offence, but could/should I have shown him a second yellow for the first offence as well? Obviously that would have meant he was sent off, and would have led to loads of abuse from red players and coaches towards me.

Both tackles were late and were both bookable offences.

What are your views?

Thanks!
 
The Referee Store
If you are going to show a card you should not really be playing advantage unless it is a gaping chance! And this scenario you have given is the reason why. You can show two yellows as each tackle is a separate incident, but you will look a little foolish and will encourage a ton of abuse as you predict, if you give 2 cautions at the same time.
 
If i was going to caution for a tackle, and played advantage, i would be letting the player know i was coming back for him. If he then went on to commit another cautionable challenge, i guess i would have a big decision to make.

By the letter of the law it would be 2 yellows and goodbye. But you would probably wave goodbye to your credibility and match control at the same time.......so i would be tempted to go with the 1 caution and remind the player how fortunate he was!
 
As Supermonkey said, it's always best to stop play straight away if you're going to book a player, unless of course it's an obvious advantage. If the ball breaks kindly, I'll tend to just say "I'm coming back to you 7" or words to that effect, just to let the player know. If he's stupid enough to commit another foul, he'd have no excuse.

You were probably right to caution him once though, you'd probably be waving goodbye to your match control if you booked him twice at once.
 
Sorry, disagree with a couple of comments here.

You only play advantage if it's a clear advantage anyway, so why would that make a difference RE caution?
Yes, you can most certainly play advantage and come back to caution (something assessors LOVE btw!) without any comeback from anyone.

If the same player makes a secondary foul (that no advantage is played from) that is yellow-worthy, you're only cautioning once. Why? Because it is, technically, the same offence - and of course, you can only punish the most serious offence!

HOWEVER, if Player A makes foul that you play advantage and then does second foul that you play advantage again and then makes a third foul - I give you persistent infringement!

PS - NEVER play advantage from RC offence!
 
If a player commits a foul from which you play advantage, than 35 seconds later commits another foul.....or 1 minute later or 5 mins later......it most definitely is not the same offence. Think about it....player commits first foul 10 yds outside his opponents penalty area, you play advantage, play continues and he commits the next foul on the halfway line.......same incident? Not a chance.

In your second example of PI.......you contradict your first point. If the second foul is the same incident as the first foul, then it follows that the 3rd, 4th, 5th etc are still the same incident and therefore not PI.

I could possibly go with the same incident if the player immediately followed the first foul with another in an almost continuous movement.....but where the foul has been committed, play has continued then a subsequent foul has been committed it can only ever be 2 incidents.

The punishing the most serious offence reference refers to 2 players from the same team committing offences at the same time. Which obviously doesn't apply here.
 
Advantage (careless foul) - only if there is a decent and obvious chance

Advantage (reckless foul) - only if it is a very good and obvious chance

Advantage (excessive force/red card offence) - only if it's a 100% obviously certain tap in within a couple of seconds of foul

:D
 
Supermonkey said:
Advantage (excessive force/red card offence) - only if it's a 100% obviously certain tap in within a couple of seconds of foul
:D
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I don't think an assessor would agree with that... One for the referee's conference if you're going.
 
I would say that the best thing to do is play the advantage, as you are signalling I normally shout something like, "that's a yellow (6), I am coming back for that"

If you shout this then everyone will know exactly where they stand and it will aid your match control however just make sure you do actually go back to the incident ;)
 
You would stop play if you have a player of the aggrieved team about to tap the ball into an open goal for 4 yards? Can always still send off the guilty party if it's not a DOGSO of course.
 
DanCohen17 said:
Sorry, disagree with a couple of comments here.
PS - NEVER play advantage from RC offence!
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Or a second yellow!!!

Aled said:
I don't think an assessor would agree with that... One for the referee's conference if you're going.
Click to expand...

Supermonkey said:
Advantage (excessive force/red card offence) - only if it's a 100% obviously certain tap in within a couple of seconds of foul
:D
Click to expand...
As an assessor, it is a diffcult matter. He woudl be marked up on Advantage & Match Control but probably neutral on Application of Law. If is went "south", then large mark down as a KMI on all three. It would have to be 100% certain of scoring, so better not to call advantage and just let play ontinue for the 1/2 second left.
 
It was a promising break as it was a 3v2 on half way, but winger was too slow to take full advantage.

Think maybe call the captain of both teams over and explain to them the situation to aid with match control?
 
Draw on Law 5 John, you and you alone have the power to caution and/or send off players, and of course 'play advantage' (refrain from penalizing etc etc etc) or not.

Your description sounds like a tidy bit of refereeing mate. Sometimes a bit of bodyspeak helps (points to the position of the first incident then politely show two fingers to suggest "that then this = 1 yellow card" to onlookers)

There's a famous bit of film from Italia 90, Argentina v Cameroon, 2 players had a good go at chopping down a fast running Argentinian before a 3rd really cleaned his clock for him. Result, red for the 3rd and a yellow for the 2 others, quality stuff mate, great refereeing.
 
I know about that one (I think)! Claudio Caniggia from wasn't it? Got basically wiped out by a 'smashing' tackle after 2 previous ones failed.
 
Aled said:
I know about that one (I think)! Claudio Caniggia from wasn't it? Got basically wiped out by a 'smashing' tackle after 2 previous ones failed.
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Your knowledge of names far outshines mine Aled, that's why I still have to write them in my book :(

Dead right, 2 big bites then Whack, even took his boot off I think (The Argentine) I was listening to that game live in my Truck on the M1, watched it later that evening, Cameroon 1-0 too!
 
John White said:
It was a promising break as it was a 3v2 on half way, but winger was too slow to take full advantage.

Think maybe call the captain of both teams over and explain to them the situation to aid with match control?
Click to expand...

Probably not necessary. You don't need to explain so often. If someone asks, explain it quickly to them but don't make a whole show of trying to explain everything.
 
Aled said:
I don't think an assessor would agree with that... One for the referee's conference if you're going.
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I asked this exact question from the Estonian FA's Head of Referee Training (or whatever his title would be in English) and he completely agreed. It's only logical imo.
 
@Brian Hamilton, if that were to occur in my game and a player was to commit a challenge worthy of a red card, but the ball suddenly goes in; would I be correct in still cautioning the offender?

Thank you in advance.
 
I know you asked Brian but it depends on the offence. Denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity? Caution will be fine, the goal has been scored, the opportunity has not been denied (you can't score twice without kicking off!)

Serious foul play, violent conduct, or spitting, no. These are mandatory reds.
 
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