1st game recap
- Thread starter Ref_otter
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In my experience and opinion (others have differing views) over communication is better than under communication. Talking to players (not in an arrogant way "I am the law / I'm always right", but in a respectful way) and managers if necessary, goes a long way to getting respect and match control. Be vocal in your officiating, instead of just not blowing for a foul on a strong challenge, shout "no foul / fair challenge" so players are aware you've seen it but not deemed it a foul. I also have no issue explaining decisions (at dead ball) to players and while they still might disagree, at least they understand why you've made a decision. It's a fine line between letting them badger you and explaining clearly and confidently why you've made a decision.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
That's my point.
If some player or spectator reports it (and they haven't complained or reported it to you as the ref on the day) - what's gonna happen with it?
Exactly the same as if you didn't actually hear anything and somebody reports having heard something to the CFA!!
It's just mindless PC pandering and frankly, unless I genuinely see/hear something that bothers me or somebody else mentions or complains to me about it then I'd leave well alone. But that's just me. I get why people are terrified of having a finger pointed at them in today's society but for me, I'm there to referee a football match - not uphold the hysterical unwritten law that says we should all be wringing our hands and gnashing our teeth at even the very possibility that somebody might have said something that somebody else might be offended by.
With offside it is a guessing game, but the best thing you can do is drift wide. Let's say play moves down to the wing, if you drift wide to the wing as well so that you're in a position to watch the play but also look down/across the line on offside, then you're in a good position. You will never get a linesman's view of the offside though, and so, you're never going to get them right using this method either, but it's better than trying to do it in a central position. (You need to be fit, but this is also a good way to get fit!
)In games where the play is directing you central - i.e. teams that pass short and across the middle all the time, then things get trickier. For me, you need to identify when they'll pass a wide ball so you can get out wide again, but in those cases I sacrifice offside for keeping up with play and foul detection - these are more important and sometimes you need to drop further back in case the passing goes wrong and a counter attack starts.
Other things that will help you is identifying patterns of play and the team's tactical set up. If you can identify they're punting the ball long and central to a striker all the time, then check out his off the ball positioning every once in a while. You'll often see if they're making any effort to drop behind the line to make their run or if they're lazy and standing miles offside hoping you don't notice. Also, look at the defending team's backline once in a while. Sometimes you'll see a brilliant offside trap played by the centre-backs only for the right back (it's always the right back) to be sitting ten yards back playing everyone onside. If you see this happening, then anytime there's an offside shout, you know you need to find that right back so you can point at him and say he's playing everyone on.
Little things like that will help. But, as you said it's your first game, I think your priority should be keeping up with play and foul detection first. When you get comfortable with that, then you can start expanding on thinking about offside, player positioning etc. Put this way, if you're not giving any or many offside, most teams will adapt and play a low-block defensive line as they know they won't get anything from you. On the other hand, you don't want teams shifting up to nasty tackles because you're missing fouls. If that makes sense?
I'd talk to the captain/manager. I'd also report it to the FA.
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
You're absolutely right that 'team' Persistent Infringement can and should be sanctioned. However this is typically used when teams are targeting a particular opposition player (often the playmaker) rather than just generally because there's fouls by many players all over the FOP.
I'd beg to differ and would reverse this statement
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socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Pedantic clarification:
Persistent infringement, now officially persistently offends, is about a specific player persistently offending the LOTG.
Targeting an opponent by a team is a species of USB as the player who eventually gets the card has not persistently offended the LOTG.
But that is a bit of a pedantic distinction that doesn't matter much in the real world.
With respect to lots of fouls against different opponents, I don't think either really applies. But I do think that when a game gets chippy like that, a referee should consider lower the line between careless and reckless, as well as being reluctant to consider fouls trifling or to apply advantage (unless there is a solid goal scoring opportunity). It can be a good time to take air out of the game--slow down a FK to talk to the fouler and perhaps the victim. Write slowly if giving a card.
Justylove
RefChat Addict
The type of communication is important. Fact based i.e. "Push by your 6 on the opposition defender" or "yes he got the ball, but got the player on the way through" is clear and concise.
Too much communication can easily lead to players wanting to debate decisions with you and from there head quickly towards dissent.
With offsides when I'm on my own I just always remind the players that they have to bear in mind I might be facing the other way and if it is played long I have to turn and make a decision, by which point the picture will have changed.
Communication is key, but the method and how much you communicate will differ with each referee. I talk a lot during the game with a lot of proactive talk like "don't foul him, careful, hands down", etc, but also then responsive like "good challenge lads, well done fellas", etc. An observer once said to me that if you are going to warn players before it happens you should also then praise them when they do it well and that has always stuck. I'm also happy to explain decisions and I'm not in the "give it and go" camp, but others might not be comfortable with that as everyone is different.
Be careful on the team persistence, only do it once you have made the captain aware that it is going to happen and you really need to sell it to everyone. I observed a L4 and when we clarified the cautions after I said that I assumed the away 2 caution was for reckless, but he said PI, I then checked my notes and it was his first foul. He then advised it was for "team persistence", I didn't really have a problem with that as the away team had committed a lot of fouls but he hadn't set it up, plus the previous two fouls were by the same player so he gets away with it whilst the 2 gets a caution for his first foul. All looked a bit messy.
Finally, if someone makes an allegation about discriminatory comments report it whether you hear it or not. To an extent I understand the PC comments, but it is just to protect yourself. If a player reports racial abuse to you and you don't report it, especially if he has witnesses of him telling you, then you are almost certainly looking at an FA charge and a long suspension. It isn't worth the risk for the amount of time it takes to complete an extraordinary incident on WGS. If you didn't hear it and it isn't reported to you and someone then reports it, that is totally different and you are in the clear as you weren't aware. You might get a phone call from the FA's discrimination department, but you would just advise that you hadn't heard anything and nothing had been reported to you, and if it had you would have reported it.
Communication is key, but the method and how much you communicate will differ with each referee. I talk a lot during the game with a lot of proactive talk like "don't foul him, careful, hands down", etc, but also then responsive like "good challenge lads, well done fellas", etc. An observer once said to me that if you are going to warn players before it happens you should also then praise them when they do it well and that has always stuck. I'm also happy to explain decisions and I'm not in the "give it and go" camp, but others might not be comfortable with that as everyone is different.
Be careful on the team persistence, only do it once you have made the captain aware that it is going to happen and you really need to sell it to everyone. I observed a L4 and when we clarified the cautions after I said that I assumed the away 2 caution was for reckless, but he said PI, I then checked my notes and it was his first foul. He then advised it was for "team persistence", I didn't really have a problem with that as the away team had committed a lot of fouls but he hadn't set it up, plus the previous two fouls were by the same player so he gets away with it whilst the 2 gets a caution for his first foul. All looked a bit messy.
Finally, if someone makes an allegation about discriminatory comments report it whether you hear it or not. To an extent I understand the PC comments, but it is just to protect yourself. If a player reports racial abuse to you and you don't report it, especially if he has witnesses of him telling you, then you are almost certainly looking at an FA charge and a long suspension. It isn't worth the risk for the amount of time it takes to complete an extraordinary incident on WGS. If you didn't hear it and it isn't reported to you and someone then reports it, that is totally different and you are in the clear as you weren't aware. You might get a phone call from the FA's discrimination department, but you would just advise that you hadn't heard anything and nothing had been reported to you, and if it had you would have reported it.
spuddy1878
RefChat Addict
Some good advice above.
Only small bit of advice id give and i referee 95% of my games without assistants.
If its close give it off side.
This way you haven't stopped a goal you've just probably stopped a promising attack and there is a lot of play left before a goal would have been scored, as long as you're consistent in this you'll be ok.
Only small bit of advice id give and i referee 95% of my games without assistants.
If its close give it off side.
This way you haven't stopped a goal you've just probably stopped a promising attack and there is a lot of play left before a goal would have been scored, as long as you're consistent in this you'll be ok.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I strongly disagree with this. I have done a lot of games with no ARs. My approach is I work really hard to get in good positions to see offsides if I can, including extreme positions at set pieces.
I won’t guess if I haven’t seen it. If there is a question/comment early in the game I tell them I can’t help them if they are standing with a hand in the air appealing, play to the whistle. Typically they can see me going b***s out to correctly give offsides and that gets a lot of good will if and when there is a contentious one.
PS Suggest not to tell players you didn’t see an offside because you turned around. This will guarantee a forward will hug that touchline for 90 mins behind your back!
... each to his/her own though. I know a couple of refs who are great at calling OS from the centre circle.
Great post, when you’re right, you are right, but when you are wrong, you are right too, it’s your call, not there’s! Get most right first time and they can except that you err a few times on close calls. Get them all wrong and you’ll lose credibility very soon.
Words can have different meanings depending on where you are but with the OP picking it up as potentially being homophoic, it would suggest that where he's refereeing, the word faggot is considered homophobic.
As Kes said, Report it on Wholegame as misconduct. Let the FA decide whether it was homophobic or not and cover yourself
Plenty of talking is good during play etc. HOWEVER, when you have players around you asking questions, I've always found that talking too much can dig you a hole. For example, if you describe a foul in a way that a player disagrees with, they will latch onto that and use it against you. Sometimes just a "it's a clear foul for me gents" is all you need, then move on. Don't stand there and have a Q&A for two minutes (not that I'm saying that's what you suggested).
spuddy1878
RefChat Addict
No matter who you are and what you do you occasionally you will get yourself not in the greatest position for whatever reason.
My point being if you let one go that you think is probably just offside and it ends up being the winning goal you'll have that to deal with, if you pull it up for offside then there is still a lot of other things that could have happened.
I had an offside yesterday, i was just about to set off after a long ball and the ball hit the heel of another player and went back towards the defender who had cleared it, no way could i get into anything like the position i would want to be in to give the decision.
I don't referee in leagues without AR's, causes far too much grief.