Dirty ***** ****!!!!
How is that not spotted!!!
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Dirty ***** ****!!!!
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
going from Mike Deans position, I can see how I went with the yellow ... for me though - it is shocking from the AR, he is staring right at the challenge when it happened!!!!
Agreed.
Yes, awful tackle, red card for me, could have broken his leg. Im one of.l his biggest fans but 3 other points for mr.dean this evening. No YC for Lovren, ran 40-50 yards and caused the mass confrontation that ensued the Barkley foul. (think he had already been cautioned so would have walked him.) Barkley should have then walked later blatant delay of restart kocking the ball away so second yellow. And havent seen it again but the Gueye tackle on Mane was a shocker too.
Mooseybaby
Retired big bad baldy in all black!
Easy to see with the benefit of replays, but it's a shocker, red all day long! I like Mike Dean as a ref, but it didn't appear to be one of his better games.
As a referee nothing hacks me off more than seeing pros kicking the ball away and getting away with it. It's blatant dissent and doesn't help those of us at grassroots level who do card players for it!
As a referee nothing hacks me off more than seeing pros kicking the ball away and getting away with it. It's blatant dissent and doesn't help those of us at grassroots level who do card players for it!
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
I do majorly agree with the sky sports pundits when they said that he obviously didn't want to send someone off for something as petty as kicking the ball away - maybe a show of good man management?
If I did that on Supply League, the assessor wouldn't describe it as "a show of good man management", he'd describe it as "failing to issue a mandatory caution" and I'd lose half a mark in Application of Law!!
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
I dont see the point in having "mandatory" cautions in law if they can be ignored for the sake of man management, but, only at a certain level of the game. L Lets not forget that, truth be told, barkley shouldnt have been on the pitch at that point in any case.
Unfortunately, Charlie, the players we referee are using the "elite" as comparables so this not being dealt with correctly at the highest levels affects our ability to apply the law correctly whilst maintaining match control on the local parks.
Unfortunately, Charlie, the players we referee are using the "elite" as comparables so this not being dealt with correctly at the highest levels affects our ability to apply the law correctly whilst maintaining match control on the local parks.
And maybe if someone got sent off for something as "petty" as kicking the ball away then they wouldnt do it. Fancy being on a caution and committing a petty ( which it is on the players part) manadatory cautionable offence. Imagine having to explain that 1 to Mr koeman @ fulltime because he certainly wouldnt of been able to have any qualms about it with the ref
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
You're spot on there. Howard Webb alludes to it in his autobiography.
Don't have it in front of me but he says something like,
"Grass roots referees often criticise top level officials for not sending someone off. However they have not had the benefit of refereeing a match in front of 50,000 paying spectators and a worldwide audience of millions who have paid to watch a 11 v 11 game"
Thats all fine and well but if I was a Liverpool fan I'd expect that to be dealt with. If a player from the team I support did it I'd expect it to be dealt with and I'd be furious at the player, not the referee. It isnt fair that 100k a week Ross.Barkley or any other top flight player gets away with it because of the "event" but when 20k a year John Smith does it on the park pitch next week he gets an early bath AND the same monetary fine.
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
@James Long im not saying it is right - I am saying it is the way it is ... we have to hold ourselves in a different regard - when I player see it on the TV and re-enacts it on a Saturday/Sunday - they know what they are doing, we hold players in such little contempt when in actual fact they know it is wrong ... want proof? go down the pub after the game to watch Super Sunday or the 5:3- kick off with them, they all be shouting at the ref to penalise what they just did on the pitch and then played stupid too 'I didn't know that ref?'
a little bit of, we ref our way and let the professionals do their is needed I think ...
a little bit of, we ref our way and let the professionals do their is needed I think ...
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
That's a very good point - players and pundits all think "kicking the ball away" is an automatic yellow card, often it DOES delay restart and/or could be seen as dissent, but its sometimes not either as you say
Technically no because this caused another incident between Barkley and Henderson that Dean had to diffuse. But the intent was there and it was successful in delaying the restart.
@Charlie Jones I dont disagree and I accept what you say, I disagree that should be the situation we find ourselves in every weekend.
Say the Premier League is your goal. At what point in your career does it become acceptable to not apply the law as to manage the event. Because level 4 onwardssome spectators are paying for entry, albeit small change. Supply league club round the corner charges a pound on the gate. So from then? Or l3 at contrib. Or only when the tele people come along? I wonder if mike dean would lose a mark or gain a mark by his handling of that situation because i know what would happen to me? Id lose a mark. And again, thats not really fair is it? Im sure you agree with all of this and mayhe you have a better perspective of us and them but i personally think, particularly when the punishment is equal, the laws should be applied the same at all levels.
@Charlie Jones I dont disagree and I accept what you say, I disagree that should be the situation we find ourselves in every weekend.
Say the Premier League is your goal. At what point in your career does it become acceptable to not apply the law as to manage the event. Because level 4 onwardssome spectators are paying for entry, albeit small change. Supply league club round the corner charges a pound on the gate. So from then? Or l3 at contrib. Or only when the tele people come along? I wonder if mike dean would lose a mark or gain a mark by his handling of that situation because i know what would happen to me? Id lose a mark. And again, thats not really fair is it? Im sure you agree with all of this and mayhe you have a better perspective of us and them but i personally think, particularly when the punishment is equal, the laws should be applied the same at all levels.
Mewcenary
Well-Known Member
I (successfully) argued my case with an Observer in a game earlier this season.
A player was flagged offside, then a few seconds later, booted the ball at goal. It was the last 10 minutes of the game and he knew what he was doing. HOWEVER, as luck would have it, the ball bounced off the crossbar and straight back to the defender where the offside flag was pointing. So... the restart was not delayed. If anything, the attacker had put the ball right where it needed to be.
Observer queried why I didn't caution, and accepted my POV when I explained my thinking process.
A player was flagged offside, then a few seconds later, booted the ball at goal. It was the last 10 minutes of the game and he knew what he was doing. HOWEVER, as luck would have it, the ball bounced off the crossbar and straight back to the defender where the offside flag was pointing. So... the restart was not delayed. If anything, the attacker had put the ball right where it needed to be.
Observer queried why I didn't caution, and accepted my POV when I explained my thinking process.
Monotone Whistle
Well-Known Member
The only point of Law I don't see being applied correctly on a consistent basis at Elite level is Dissent by Word/Offinabus.
Arguably this is the one that causes us at lower levels the biggest problem as a result, but for everything else although there are errors made, they are not consistently or deliberately ignored as far as I can tell. You can argue all day about whether the tackle from Barkley (or Vardy) were red card offences, but it's all about perspective, angle, speed, etc. and therefore not easy to judge versus seeing it on TV.
Last night, no restart was delayed by Barkley, the referee was having a word with another player and was getting into position and I think had his back to the event. In any case, with multi-ball it is very difficult to effectively delay anything at that level.
Arguably this is the one that causes us at lower levels the biggest problem as a result, but for everything else although there are errors made, they are not consistently or deliberately ignored as far as I can tell. You can argue all day about whether the tackle from Barkley (or Vardy) were red card offences, but it's all about perspective, angle, speed, etc. and therefore not easy to judge versus seeing it on TV.
Last night, no restart was delayed by Barkley, the referee was having a word with another player and was getting into position and I think had his back to the event. In any case, with multi-ball it is very difficult to effectively delay anything at that level.
