The Ref Stop

New LoTG - Injuries - Liking it!!

socal lurker said:
If the player is required to leave because the sub has been announced, then he is delaying the restart by not leaving the field.
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Required by whom? What does the announcement (at grassroots granting permission) mean? The way the laws are written now, once a substitution request is made (by anyone in the team?) all we can do is say yes it is OK with me (or deny it), but we can't mandate it.

Making this DR is the same as my new RA disciplinary officer asking me to report a coach red card who entered the field of play to confront me as OFFINABUS because our send-off form had not provisioned for such send offs. It is not the player who is delaying the restart, it is the referee. As far as the player is concerned he is not being substituted so he is NOT required to leave the field of play.

The point I am making is that removing that clause will leave as much of a gap in the laws as would keeping it in as is. The problem has to be fixed by other means; mandate it once permission is given for example but that would have its own problems. One thing is certain, if there is a gap in the laws, teams will start exploiting it sooner or later as experience has shown. So @DavidObs I'm afraid your enjoyment of the new 10 second thing may be short lived and may be offset by the loophole 😊.
 
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The Ref Stop
one said:
Required by whom? What does the announcement (at grassroots granting permission) mean? The way the laws are written now, once a substitution request is made (by anyone in the team?) all we can do is say yes it is OK with me (or deny it), but we can't mandate it.

Making this DR is the same as my new RA disciplinary officer asking me to report a coach red card who entered the field of play to confront me as OFFINABUS because our send-off form had not provisioned for such send offs. It is not the player who is delaying the restart, it is the referee. As far as the player is concerned he is not being substituted so he is NOT required to leave the field of play.

The point I am making is that removing that clause will leave as much of a gap in the laws as would keeping it in as is. The problem has to be fixed by other means; mandate it once permission is given for example but that would have its own problems. One thing is certain, if there is a gap in the laws, teams will start exploiting it sooner or later as experience has shown. So @DavidObs I'm afraid your enjoyment of the new 10 second thing may be short lived and may be offset by the loophole 😊.
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When the leagues with "rolling subs" start, we will see some interesting scenarios 😁
 
one said:
Required by whom? What does the announcement (at grassroots granting permission) mean? The way the laws are written now, once a substitution request is made (by anyone in the team?) all we can do is say yes it is OK with me (or deny it), but we can't mandate it.
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I agree this should be cleaned up. But if the Rules of the Competition require him to leave the field of play, that he is delaying the restart by not leaving, as the restart cannot occur until he does.
 
Just to go back to the OP - by way of practical management (minimising complaints), the logical guidance is to only stop play if you think (or have good reason to suspect) there is a serious (or head) injury, otherwise wait until a break in play to check on the player, thus avoiding lots of 1 minutes for just cramp/sore bits?
 
puddles15 said:
Just to go back to the OP - by way of practical management (minimising complaints), the logical guidance is to only stop play if you think (or have good reason to suspect) there is a serious (or head) injury, otherwise wait until a break in play to check on the player, thus avoiding lots of 1 minutes for just cramp/sore bits?
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I just think there is still some confusion (mainly from non referee footballing folk, but also myself I am happy to admit) about a ‘stoppage in play’.

Whilst I understand and have read the protocol - the situation you described still allows players to go down feigning a serious injury when the ball is out of play, waste a few seconds and not have to go off for the prescribed minute.
 
Redref34 said:
I just think there is still some confusion (mainly from non referee footballing folk, but also myself I am happy to admit) about a ‘stoppage in play’.

Whilst I understand and have read the protocol - the situation you described still allows players to go down feigning a serious injury when the ball is out of play, waste a few seconds and not have to go off for the prescribed minute.
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True, but if the referee decides that a player has delayed the restart of play they can implement the 60 seconds.
 
“An injured player may not be treated on the field of play and, where an injury results in play being stopped or the restart of play being delayed, the injured player must leave the field of play and may only re-enter one minute after play has restarted;”

Bit of a grey area because if you pause a restart you have quite literally delayed the restart by checking on them and getting them up. I assume it is for excessive delays, and if a player is truly down injured the physio is coming on and they’re off for a minute for treatment anyway, but how much of a pause is delaying the restart?
We obviously can’t ignore a player down, and have to ‘play the game’ of going over and saying “you alright do you need anyone on?” - but that in itself is a delay!
Personally if they’re straight up and shake themselves off then fine, up you get and let’s go. If they stay down after my initial “you alright” I’ll say they need to go off.
 
puddles15 said:
Just to go back to the OP - by way of practical management (minimising complaints), the logical guidance is to only stop play if you think (or have good reason to suspect) there is a serious (or head) injury, otherwise wait until a break in play to check on the player, thus avoiding lots of 1 minutes for just cramp/sore bits?
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yes I understand the practicality of the law more now it was more the inconsistent application & practical match advice still isnt going to stop a coach yelling "injury ref" because someones sock fell down.. if the ball isn't going out or the lads arent putting it out and for all intensive purposes they look injured i'm stopping play. my only worry with no always telling a player to go off is you know full well if you dont apply it for situation x but do for situation y, the first comment will be consistency "that player didnt have to ref", it is easier for me to send them off for a minute and especially round my area word travels fast i should hope by the end of the season there is less "going down for injury". I did pre-season games for the same couple of clubs and touch wood both learnt very quickly. Did help that I explained decisions as I went and briefed both teams before kick-off seeing as no-one had bothered elsewhere! causes me less problems anyway
 
norfolkref said:
yes I understand the practicality of the law more now it was more the inconsistent application & practical match advice still isnt going to stop a coach yelling "injury ref" because someones sock fell down.. if the ball isn't going out or the lads arent putting it out and for all intensive purposes they look injured i'm stopping play. my only worry with no always telling a player to go off is you know full well if you dont apply it for situation x but do for situation y, the first comment will be consistency "that player didnt have to ref", it is easier for me to send them off for a minute and especially round my area word travels fast i should hope by the end of the season there is less "going down for injury". I did pre-season games for the same couple of clubs and touch wood both learnt very quickly. Did help that I explained decisions as I went and briefed both teams before kick-off seeing as no-one had bothered elsewhere! causes me less problems anyway
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A referee I worked with last week told both coaches prior to the match that he would not want anyone going off for a minute when uninjured, so don't shout "Ref, Ref, head" every time someone goes to ground.
That worked (with two sensible coaches🙂)
 
Just shocking that IFAB didn’t realize they had to confirm another part of the Laws when they changed something. :rolleyes: I just don’t get how, with all them money FIFA generates, they can’t hire a competent copy editor to make sure changes are coherent with other parts of the book when they make changes. It’s not that hard.
 
the substitute is considered a ‘player’, even if their entry onto the field of play is delayed because the substituted player took too long leaving
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OOOOOOOKKKKKKKK. Now that we have a player who is not allowed to enter the field of play for a minute but IS a player, if the stoppage was a throw in for the team that made the substitution, can the new PLAYER take the throw in from outside the field of play 😟. If not why not?

While the change was typical by not considering the consequences to other parts of law, the fix (when the sub becomes a player) is just as typical. They should have simply said the substitute is considered a "player temporarily of the field of play".
 
one said:
OOOOOOOKKKKKKKK. Now that we have a player who is not allowed to enter the field of play for a minute but IS a player, if the stoppage was a throw in for the team that made the substitution, can the new PLAYER take the throw in from outside the field of play 😟. If not why not?

While the change was typical by not considering the consequences to other parts of law, the fix (when the sub becomes a player) is just as typical. They should have simply said the substitute is considered a "player temporarily of the field of play".
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Not a new concept... sin binned players are players but not allowed on the pitch. They can't take throw ins.
 
RefereeX said:
Not a new concept... sin binned players are players but not allowed on the pitch. They can't take throw ins.
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They are categorised as players temporarily of the field of play. Same with injured players of the filed for treatment or others who leave the field with permission.
Though laws of the game doesn't specifically categorise players in one place, it has over several places. A 'player' is a person listed on the team list who can legally play the ball at a given time. Then we have player temporarily off the field of play, subtituted player, sent off player and substitutes.
In general football terms they are all called players but the laws refers to them differently depending what they can or can't do.
 
one said:
They are categorised as players temporarily of the field of play. Same with injured players of the filed for treatment or others who leave the field with permission.
Though laws of the game doesn't specifically categorise players in one place, it has over several places. A 'player' is a person listed on the team list who can legally play the ball at a given time. Then we have player temporarily off the field of play, subtituted player, sent off player and substitutes.
In general football terms they are all called players but the laws refers to them differently depending what they can or can't do.
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Agreed... so the new player is a 'player temporarily off the field of play'... no?
 
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The replacement could be classed as having played in the match without ever entering the pitch...
 
My first game back today. Took a bit of heat because sub had to wait a minute after injured player hobbled off after on-field treatment
Hard to know when to start a count for subs at Step 6 like. Fook knows when the AR has been given all the info, although board going up seems to be the queue for me to find the players who're going off to make sure they're not dawdling

Actually, thinking about this... Took a bit of heat because sub had to wait a minute after injured player hobbled off after on-field treatment
Is that correct? I can't find it in the bumf from the FA. Seems very unfair when the injury is genuine

Another question that my son posed earlier. What happens if the sub comes on the FOP without the Referee's permission before the minute us up? Assume the player does not commit another offense. Obviously, the player is cautioned, but do we insist that the player leave the FOP for however much of the minuet is left? Or do we just keep them on the FOP with the caution seen as sufficient?
 
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Big Cat said:
My first game back today. Took a bit of heat because sub had to wait a minute after injured player was taken off.
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There is an exemption if it's an injured player that's being subbed off.

"The referee may decide not to apply the ten-second time limit, including when:

a player’s injury clearly prevents them from leaving the field within that time"
 
Yeah it’s why I can’t see the 10 second rule really working long term. Any team slowing the game down with a lead will suddenly have an injury to everyone coming off. Surprised it hasn’t happened more so far!
 
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