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Doncaster v Mansfield - Offside

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SelbyRef

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Interested in thoughts on AR positioning for this (non) offside call, Mansfield player in blue goes on to score.

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Doncaster are complaining about it being offside and suggesting AR isn’t where he should have been to make the call i.e. in line.

As per the still photo, it’s a very tight call to the human eye anyway (looks a small fraction off to me but human eye couldn’t be 100% on this one IMO). The AR a moment before this is around a step or so closer to halfway line.

I know why he’s moving that way as he’s following the likely path of the ball forward to try & keep up, but with the last defender still in opposition half until ball is played should he still be pretty much on the half way line?

Not sure if that would have changed his decision had he been directly in line, with the Doncaster defender on the ‘wrong’ side to judge clearly.
 
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At least we can try and learn something. This is always going to be tough as the players might be sprinting back from the other half at 70+% and the AR has some kind of standing start to deal with from the halfway line.

In the pic, he’s gambled on going a bit early, and crabbing. At this level he’s probably a great crabber and would expect to naturally turn and join the players’ speed a few yards later.

The gamble hasn’t paid off this time! Another option is to stand at halfway on the half turn, sprint ready, and wait for the players. This is an even bigger gamble though - you are likely going to end up behind the players, with a worst view of potential offences especially if the players hit top speed.( I like this option deeper, if the defenders are in the process of turning, as I’m more confident I can accelerate with them.)

In another world, ARs get instructed to follow the last player into the other half to give them the best options for sprinting back with the players/ball. ;)
 
es1 said:
Good friend of mine 😞
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OK - do you think he’ll feel he was in the best position to make the call on this one?

I’m not saying whether he was or he wasn’t, as obv we’re not party to ref’s pre-brief or general EFL expectations etc - but it just struck me that he wasn’t in line with the second-last defender at the point the ball was played (which would have been adjacent to halfway line).
 
santa sangria said:
At least we can try and learn something. This is always going to be tough as the players might be sprinting back from the other half at 70+% and the AR has some kind of standing start to deal with from the halfway line.

In the pic, he’s gambled on going a bit early, and crabbing. At this level he’s probably a great crabber and would expect to naturally turn and join the players’ speed a few yards later.

The gamble hasn’t paid off this time! Another option is to stand at halfway on the half turn, sprint ready, and wait for the players. This is an even bigger gamble though - you are likely going to end up behind the players, with a worst view of potential offences especially if the players hit top speed.( I like this option deeper, if the defenders are in the process of turning, as I’m more confident I can accelerate with them.)

In another world, ARs get instructed to follow the last player into the other half to give them the best options for sprinting back with the players/ball. ;)
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Makes sense - I do get that Doncaster’s (bad) defending here has made it a very difficult choice either way.

Trying to essentially play offside using the halfway line is always going to be dangerous.

There’s probably an aspect here of damned if you, damned if you don’t - but I suppose let’s look at it through an assessor’s eyes, would they be expecting the AR to be bang in line for a decision like this?

Or do you feel they’d be OK with what you’ve described as the likely scenario i.e. his movement was somewhat anticipatory?
 
SelbyRef said:
Makes sense - I do get that Doncaster’s (bad) defending here has made it a very difficult choice either way.

Trying to essentially play offside using the halfway line is always going to be dangerous.

There’s probably an aspect here of damned if you, damned if you don’t - but I suppose let’s look at it through an assessor’s eyes, would they be expecting the AR to be bang in line for a decision like this?

Or do you feel they’d be OK with what you’ve described as the likely scenario i.e. his movement was somewhat anticipatory?
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With an observer hat on, I would consider the ARs movement throughout the match. If there were repeated issues with crabbing vs sprinting, if there were other offside decisions made from sub-optimal positions, of course it’s going to be a prominent discussion and development point. But if it’s isolated, this gamble was probably one most would have taken, and he was just unlucky this time with the timing of the pass. I wouldn’t want to criticize this specific incident- but I’d like to know the AR’s thought process and analysis (no right or wrong answers!).
 
SelbyRef said:
OK - do you think he’ll feel he was in the best position to make the call on this one?

I’m not saying whether he was or he wasn’t, as obv we’re not party to ref’s pre-brief or general EFL expectations etc - but it just struck me that he wasn’t in line with the second-last defender at the point the ball was played (which would have been adjacent to halfway line).
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Of course he's not, it's clearly a) the wrong decision and b) he's out of position (both by fractions mind)

He's anticipating the pass on the move, going from stationary on the half way line to keep up with play, the pass comes a split second earlier and he's in a great position to make the right call
 
SelbyRef said:
Makes sense - I do get that Doncaster’s (bad) defending here has made it a very difficult choice either way.

Trying to essentially play offside using the halfway line is always going to be dangerous.

There’s probably an aspect here of damned if you, damned if you don’t - but I suppose let’s look at it through an assessor’s eyes, would they be expecting the AR to be bang in line for a decision like this?

Or do you feel they’d be OK with what you’ve described as the likely scenario i.e. his movement was somewhat anticipatory?
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At the speed this was played, an Observer (unlikely to be in line with the players concerned) would not judge on a single incident like this.
Worth asking the AR about it, but no chance of saying right or wrong.
 
Would really need to see it on video to see how the AR ended up there. Did he go too early, was he recovering from a previous position, or has he just switched off and drifted from the line (which all ARs sometimes do, even the very best).
 
The image is that blurry I wouldn't be confident the kick point is right.

Majority of assistants will go early in situations like this, you may think you don't but most do.
 
Watch the real time replay & see the pace of the run, a still picture makes lining look so easy!

It was a brilliant finish, and I think the benefit of the doubt should go to the attacking team.
 
SelbyRef said:
OK - do you think he’ll feel he was in the best position to make the call on this one?.
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The simple answer here was that he was not in the optimum position.

We, that is assistant referees operating at steps 2-6, were recently given some training that showed the impact of being in the wrong position, the angle changes what you see and therefore makes detecting offside even more difficult for what would already be a very difficult judgement.
 
I think I know what the AR has done here, it looks like the attacker running the ball was going to pass it here, this is when the AR sets off. In his mind it will be clearly onside as the attackers are all well within their own half. Apologies for image quality but it blurs when paused.

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But he then decides against passing and takes another touch, then by the time he actually makes the pass the AR is too far advanced and has no chance of accurately judging on such a tight offside call. He may even think the attacker receiving the ball is in his own half at the time of the pass. Still a major error but I can see what has happened.
 

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Most likely about 0.01s offside
I watched one of my decisions back recently. One frame (looked like the above). Next frame (25fps), a good yard offside
Doncaster Rovers are always gonna kick off about this decision given the positional mistake, but it's just sour grapes because the call is so tight that it equates to 'tough titty'. Likewise for the AR, who may have suffered in some way with his score
 
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