The Ref Stop

Can an AR help like this?

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Ori

Well-Known Member
The Ref Stop
CAN they? absolutely.

Is it correct in law? the ref can choose to take or ignore the ARs advice - no issues

SHOULD the AR get involved here? Looks like they got the right decision here so the AR was right to get involved but it likely went against the refs pre-match instructions and absolutely killed his match control with the players and coaches. Getting involved like this is something the AR should think extremely carefully about and is not something you want to make a habit of doing (unless you're absolutely 100% sure!).
 
The referee can change his decision before play restarts.
Theres a few outcomes possible here.
If the referee determines based upon the advice of AR that simualtion occured or then idfk to defending team
If determines the attacking team committed another offence then fre kick to defending team
Or if no offence occurred a dropped ball restart to the Goalkeeper
 
There's another similar clip doing the rounds where a defender bundles in to his goalkeeper who spills the ball in to his own net, under pressure from a striker, and the ref awards a defensive free kick. It appears the AR then informs the referee the contact on the goalkeeper in possession of the ball came from the defender not the attacker and the ref then awards the goal. I think in scenarios like that, if I'm going to get a KMI very, very clearly wrong... I'd rather my AR comes in to help me, but mostly once a decision is given, if they think I'm wrong and it's subjective, I'd like them to keep their opinion to themselves.

I gave a red card earlier this week. It seems both ARs weren't 100% confident I was correct, the team who committed the foul didn't even think it was a foul and the other team seemed a little surprised by it too. I've seen some comments on social media from people who said they didn't think it was a red card at the time, but thankfully there is a camera angle with a similar view to mine that proves it to be a horrendous tackle and a stonewall red. Thankfully neither of my ARs tried to come in and tell me I was seeing things!
 
I just like clichés. "Surely he can't do that", "who's in charge of this game?", "never seen anything like it".

It is not clear if the assistant signalled to the referee to involve himself or the referee decided to discuss it with him. Either way the AR was in a good position to judge the incident and provide help. My prematch to my AR is if I have called it, only get involved if I have made a howler.

And yes, the AR can absolutely help like he did in the OP if the referee is happy with it.
 
RefereeX said:
There's another similar clip doing the rounds where a defender bundles in to his goalkeeper who spills the ball in to his own net, under pressure from a striker, and the ref awards a defensive free kick. It appears the AR then informs the referee the contact on the goalkeeper in possession of the ball came from the defender not the attacker and the ref then awards the goal. I think in scenarios like that, if I'm going to get a KMI very, very clearly wrong... I'd rather my AR comes in to help me, but mostly once a decision is given, if they think I'm wrong and it's subjective, I'd like them to keep their opinion to themselves.

I gave a red card earlier this week. It seems both ARs weren't 100% confident I was correct, the team who committed the foul didn't even think it was a foul and the other team seemed a little surprised by it too. I've seen some comments on social media from people who said they didn't think it was a red card at the time, but thankfully there is a camera angle with a similar view to mine that proves it to be a horrendous tackle and a stonewall red. Thankfully neither of my ARs tried to come in and tell me I was seeing things!
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I wonder what an Observer would have made of it. You were very brave to administer a red with both teams surprised, but as you say, you have seen a clip & are comfortable with the decision you made. For me, if I hadn’t seen what you had seen, then I would have asked you some questions including talk me through it & perhaps some follow ups. If I considered your replies were acceptable/logical & followed a process, I would have supported you, especially since by not supporting is saying you were incorrect (with a subjective decision), which in my world is not how it should be. Other Observers at your level, may see things differently.
 
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DavidObs said:
I wonder what an Observer would have made of it. You were very brave to administer a red with both teams surprised, but as you say, you have seen a clip & are comfortable with the decision you made. For me, if I hadn’t seen what you had seen, then I would have asked you some questions including talk me through it & perhaps some follow ups. If I considered your replies were acceptable/logical & followed a process, I would have supported you, especially since by not supporting is saying you were incorrect (with a subjective decision), which in my world is not how it should be. Other Observers at your level, may see things differently.
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Agreed. I'd like to think there was enough force in the tackle that most observers would back me with the right explanation. I'll PM you the details and you can see the clip if you like.
 
I say in my pre-match that if I’ve I’ve given or turned down a penalty don’t get involved unless I’m the only idiot at this ground that thinks it is / isn’t a penalty. The aim there is 99% of my decisions will be left alone but if I really have dropped a total clanger I haven’t completely excluded the ARs.
 
es1 said:
Looks like they got the right decision here so the AR was right to get involved but it likely went against the refs pre-match instructions and absolutely killed his match control with the players and coaches
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Referee coaching is wrong
Referee coaching is generally too safe. We're coached to sh1t ourselves

It's more of a gamble at Steps 5 & 6. But if I've got AR's I trust from previous outings, I'm betting on them in this situation
The correctness of the KMD is more important to me than 'staying safe'. I'm unusual in that I'm resistant to indoctrination and care about the decision more than my own welfare

The Referee has made a mistake. If he was quite sure of his decision, he wouldn't be getting attracted to the AR anyway. This is one of those situations in which the Ref could've looked at his AR in the first place, but be honest, how often do any of us do that despite what we say we might do in pre-match? It never happens. Only once in ten years has a Ref looked at me for Assistance, but I've not been able to tell them they're wrong on a number of other occasions because they've excluded me at pre-match. Their Match Control suffered because of their KMD which was 90% wrong and I knew it

I gave a PK about four years ago. Suffice to say it didn't go down brilliantly. HT, AR say's 'yeh, I thought it was Simulation!'.. Brilliant, we all fooked up then
 
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Big Cat said:
Referee coaching is wrong
Referee coaching is generally too safe. We're coached to sh1t ourselves

It's more of a gamble at Steps 5 & 6. But if I've got AR's I trust from previous outings, I'm betting on them in this situation
The correctness of the KMD is more important to me than 'staying safe'. I'm unusual in that I'm resistant to indoctrination and care about the decision more than my own welfare

The Referee has made a mistake. If he was quite sure of his decision, he wouldn't be getting attracted to the AR anyway. This is one of those situations in which the Ref could've looked at his AR in the first place, but be honest, how often do any of us do that despite what we say we might do in pre-match? It never happens. Only once in ten years has a Ref looked at me for Assistance, but I've not been able to tell them they're wrong on a number of other occasions because they've excluded me at pre-match. Their Match Control suffered because of their KMD which was 90% wrong and I knew it

I gave a PK about four years ago. Suffice to say it didn't go down brilliantly. HT, AR say's 'yeh, I thought it was Simulation!'.. Brilliant, we all fooked up then
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Yeah that's all fair

There's so much to consider/weight up here as an AR before getting involved
 
es1 said:
Yeah that's all fair

There's so much to consider/weight up here as an AR before getting involved
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I think to myself, 'is refereeing is good as it it could/should be'? I think the answer is unequivocally, 'NO'
If we don't gamble and get less 'safe', how can we improve?

The dynamics of the team is too safe. I know that's not what normally springs to mind when 'safe refereeing' gets mentioned, but it forms part of the same indoctrination. Unfortunately, my views probably won't get you promoted because indoctrination will rule in favour of natural selection. Thinking for yourself is a very risky business where observations are concerned

The Ref's MC went walkies the moment he blew the whistle. We've all been there. May as well reverse it and get it right (as player reaction clearly indicates).... as he's probably buggered his MC anyway
 
Did the lino flag? Referee has possibly smelt something is wrong with the reaction, and possibly been given a buzz from his assistant.

Don't cover your mouth, never a good look.
 
bester said:
Did the lino flag? Referee has possibly smelt something is wrong with the reaction, and possibly been given a buzz from his assistant.

Don't cover your mouth, never a good look.
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When I've messed up..... yes, SHOCK, it does happen... I've learned to realize very quickly and run straight to the AR regardless of a buzz / no buzz
Indeed, I've over-toilette talked observers too much above. In my last observation, I got full credit for doing exactly that as my MC benefitted instead of taking the nose dive I'd initiated. You have to get to the AR sharpish, otherwise it looks like the players are reffing the game. My players are reffing the game, I just don't want them to know it!
 
Big Cat said:
I think to myself, 'is refereeing is good as it it could/should be'? I think the answer is unequivocally, 'NO'
If we don't gamble and get less 'safe', how can we improve?

The dynamics of the team is too safe. I know that's not what normally springs to mind when 'safe refereeing' gets mentioned, but it forms part of the same indoctrination. Unfortunately, my views probably won't get you promoted because indoctrination will rule in favour of natural selection. Thinking for yourself is a very risky business where observations are concerned

The Ref's MC went walkies the moment he blew the whistle. We've all been there. May as well reverse it and get it right (as player reaction clearly indicates).... as he's probably buggered his MC anyway
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Strongly agree with this
 
socal lurker said:
I’m going to throw out another possibility. The R could have realized he botched and run over to the AR to help sell the changed call.
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Very true. I (sort of) did this a few weeks ago too on a corner / goal kick decision when I gave a goal kick and everyone was in disbelief. I didn’t go over to my AR but I looked at him and mouthed corner before saying loudly corner? And he nodded and signalled it. They scored from the corner and I got zero complaints luckily 🤣
 
socal lurker said:
I’m going to throw out another possibility. The R could have realized he botched and run over to the AR to help sell the changed call.
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That's the beauty of buzzers (or comms kit). The ref can either choose to jog over and confer with their AR or the ref can react to a buzz (rather than a flag signal) from the AR and jog across to be advised. Either way, it helps sell the final decision a bit better.
 
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