Level 4 & above fixtures

As you move up the non‑league refereeing ladder from Level 4 to Level 2, is it normal to not get an appointment every weekend? And when you don’t have a fixture at your level, do you usually drop down to grassroots

Egg man said:

As you move up the non‑league refereeing ladder from Level 4 to Level 2, is it normal to not get an appointment every weekend? And when you don’t have a fixture at your level, do you usually drop down to grassroots

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Depending where you are in the country, but at Level 4 you would normally get a middle or line most Saturdays. Remember also that late appointments take place if another official is unavailable for any reason.
On Saturdays when not needed you can indeed take a local appointment if available.

I believe, although not confirmed, that currently the biggest excess is at level 2. I know some (James) of our fellow forum users are kept less busy as a level 3, but as a midlands based Level 3 I very rarely have a free Saturday, yet I know a couple of level 2s who seem to get a fair few.

I'm pretty sure L4s and L3s in the London and South East area get games most if not all weekends. I've been out of the system a long time now, but when I was at those levels it was extremely rare I didn't get a Saturday game, even when I was left free I almost always got a late phone call to replace a cry off.

RefereeX said:

I believe, although not confirmed, that currently the biggest excess is at level 2. I know some (James) of our fellow forum users are kept less busy as a level 3, but as a midlands based Level 3 I very rarely have a free Saturday, yet I know a couple of level 2s who seem to get a fair few.

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As above. Geography and concentration of officials locally and nationally plays a huge part.
We've a few south west clubs struggling at step 4 this season too so potentially be even less games next season.

Speak to your local appointments officer and say you are looking for games and you could be taken last minute by the FA (as mentioned). This does happen, but not very commonly.

So if you fin yourself with a free weekend take a local game, if you want, but never close off MOAS for it.

Steve Fall said:

So if you fin yourself with a free weekend take a local game, if you want, but never close off MOAS for it.

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I don't know about appointment officers and the system in England but here this is looked at as the referee is being selfish if you don't manage it right. It can create a lot of work and problems for many people. I know this for a fact as I appointed for a number of years and in some referee's cases, it was much easier to ignore their availability than appointing them.

one said:

I don't know about appointment officers and the system in England but here this is looked at as the referee is being selfish if you don't manage it right. It can create a lot of work and problems for many people. I know this for a fact as I appointed for a number of years and in some referee's cases, it was much easier to ignore their availability than appointing them.

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Here, the FA would expect that if you're available to referee a game of football, that you're available for them first and foremost (unless it's a county cup game). I understand the argument to the contrary, but that's where the weight of expectation is.

When I get a free Saturday I use it to keep the good lady happy and spend some time with the 2 small beings that terrorise my house - sometimes I close the date by the Friday afternoon if I haven't had a throw back as getting a last minute appointment in them situations can cause some upset, but I think the FA would expect you not to close it for a grass roots game.

RefereeX said:

Here, the FA would expect that if you're available to referee a game of football, that you're available for them first and foremost (unless it's a county cup game). I understand the argument to the contrary, but that's where the weight of expectation is.

When I get a free Saturday I use it to keep the good lady happy and spend some time with the 2 small beings that terrorise my house - sometimes I close the date by the Friday afternoon if I haven't had a throw back as getting a last minute appointment in them situations can cause some upset, but I think the FA would expect you not to close it for a grass roots game.

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Somewhat similar here in terms of priorities.
In our case I had 'dual' referees who managed it well and worked well with me. It comes down to communication and expectations.

Our main game days are Saturdays. I had some state (dual) referees who were permanently closed for local games (which i appointed). They sent me a text on a Friday night asking for any game (even lines) and 9 out of 10 they turned up for it. The one they didnt I got a text from the state AO that they are taking them off me. All good.

On the opposite end I also had other dual referees who were available most weeks and declined close to half of their appointments late because they now have a state game. The flow on effect of the declines was just too much work. I won't go into conspiricies of why they were doing it but it was not worth my time appointing them.

As I said, if you manage it well, it works out. But if it comes across as you are OK with sacrificing the AO's time so that you can have games every weekend then it won't go down too well.

I don't think they are as strict about it in England now, but it used to be that if you closed a date with the FA at L4 or above you absolutely could not referee a grass roots game on that date. They obviously get cry offs for various reasons, so if everyone that didn't initially get a game closed the date off they would be in serious trouble. Technically speaking the 4 day rule applies, so if you took a grass roots game then the FA came calling with less than 4 days notice they would have to ask for permission from the grass roots league to release you. In reality that rarely happens as trying to enforce that wouldn't do much to enhance your refereeing progression.

One L4 down here was demoted for refereeing grass roots games on closed dates, although that appeared to be more that he was closing dates before the step 5 and above appointments were done as he wasn't happy with the lack of middles he got.

Egg man said:

As you move up the non‑league refereeing ladder from Level 4 to Level 2, is it normal to not get an appointment every weekend? And when you don’t have a fixture at your level, do you usually drop down to grassroots

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In the very old days (when I was refereeing), if you didn't get a match in your league (we were assigned to leagues rather than levels), you could only referee at local level.

So, there are many stories of Football League referees turning out for a "Dog and Duck" match in a Saturday afternoon. (This was before the EPL).