They can't.
Junior/Youth U13 game OFFINABUS gesture
- Thread starter RespectTheRef
- Start date
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And by not sending off for it, you're teaching that child that multiple attempts to kick an opponent and giving him two middle fingers will only get him a yellow card next time he chooses to do it.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
At which age group would you start to apply the LOTG?
But a child's brain and reasoning are shaped by their experiences. They don't suddenly get to 18 years old and suddenly rationalise that this behaviour is not acceptable. Do absolutely, if we want out youth to learn that this behaviour is not right, they should be taught and shown the consequences.
If my son at 13 years old does this, even if he isn't sent off, he would be suspended from playing in the next game because he would be grounded.
Actions = consequence and unless we teach this then it will never be learned.
Seven. Would you send a seven year old off for waving two fingers around?
I did not mention the multiple attempts at kicking an opponent. The child was sent off for the fingers.
Coming from a coaching environment I see many emotional children. If we punished all immature emotional behaviours we would have empty sessions, lots of players off the pitch, this is not what we want. Twelve and thirteen year olds display uneven behaviours. Expect them. Punishment should be the last resort.
I can see your point... but we are looking at the LOTG here and they were applied correctly. While we call them laws, they are rules and rules are there for one reason... control. You are there to referee the match, and control behaviour through use of the cards. Mitigation is always going to be there... age, experience and even mental health... but we give what the rules tell us to give. What you have missed out in your argument is respect. Any school child will tell you about it being drummed into them. (rights respecting schools etc) - this child has failed to show any respectful behaviour so who is at fault here?
But a child's brain is not fully developed at thirteen is it? The child is not an adult and does not have the comprehension of a adult do they? So you would not apply adult consequences to a child's behaviour?
A red card means they will sit out some games while their teammates play. The effect on a child who wants to play football but cannot due to their behaviour is something that will have an impact on their behaviour. We are not too far away from the time when we belted children on the premise that their behaviour has consequences. The red cards are not punishments, they are a control measure.
So we should have an age-specific LOTG then?
I'd be inclined to make an argument that a middle finger gesture is worse coming from a 13 year old than it is from an adult. I can't think of many adults that would do it, because it's childish and wouldn't be offensive, but a 13 year old doing it intends it to be offensive.
But they're not "adult consequences" - they're football consequences. If the authorities who dictate the rules for youth football have decided that OFFINABUS (action/words/gestures) is a red card offence, then as a referee our job is to give a red card.
There are situations where we can work within the framework of the laws (eg. DOGSO: "ooh I think they just had a defender covering" etc.) but I would argue that OFFINABUS is probably the one category of dismissal that has no wiggle room (99% of the time).
In this specific incident, a 13 year old (year 8 or 9) has made a gesture that is considered offensive/insulting. That's a red card offence, so a red card should be issued.
13 year olds are able to comprehend enough to understand that - otherwise where do you draw the line. After all children are legally responsible from the age of 10
Chicken and egg argument. Their comprehension as an adult is shaped by their experiences as a child. They aren't mutually exclusive.
If that child did that in his classroom at school do you think they say oh its ok he is only 13? No he would receive a punishment. Because guess what? If he didn't. He would do it again. And again. Until there was a consequence.
The laws specify which lws acn be amended for grassroots and junior football and the last time I checked law 12 was not one of them.
There is age specific football at U7/8 five a side, U9/10 seven, U11 nine etc .. But what there is a liberal application of the laws. Refs in general do not manage children's football like they manage adult games. Bookings below U14 are rare, sending offs are remarkable.
I am into my third ten year cycle of coaching at grass roots and development level. In twenty five years I have seen one U13 player sent off and this was for violent conduct, and that is in hundreds of games. Sending a thirteen year old off should only occur in exceptional circumstances.
But application of law for those under 18 is different. Why? Because they are children. Children have differing courts, differing sentences and frequently no punitive action is taken against children.
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By your argument as it’s accepted in Boxing my work to swear as part of day to day dealings any child who boxes should be able to swear in school as you can’t change the rules for any reason see how silly your logic is.
What?!?
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
Mini soccer has different protocols and approaches to disciplinary issues (e.g. suggesting the offender be removed by the coach) but in youth football the players should be subject to the sanctions set out in the LOTG.
You've replied to someone who spent years working in CFA discipline, not an argument you are going to win. Likewise I've spent decades as part of the CFA referees' committee, and also spent time on the disciplinary committee, I also speak with some experience.
So I can say with 100% confidence you are wrong, twice. You cannot appeal a red card for OFFINABUS, and there is absolutely no way the situation in the OP constitutes a safeguarding issue, it doesn't even come close to the threshold.
Yes I and have mentioned age specific football, and football has age related priorities. Children are not mini adults and should not be treated as such.
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No, but a male brain isn't fully developed until their early 20s, and research from Harvard today stated adolescence lasts until early 30s!
My boy had just turned 14, and I referee U14s regularly (and prior to this year U11s, U12s, U13s) - their brains might not be fully developed but far more often than not they know exactly what they're doing.