Offside question

ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:

Comments like "Try reading it some time" and your misplaced assumption that members of this group don't know about Under-12 matches will not encourage us to answer the original question.
To do so, however, as the attacker stood still some 10 metres from where the ball went out of play, the correct restart is a corner kick.
If the offside question is raised, the simple answer is "Not interfering"

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I dont care for your arrogance either. The first replies i saw here didnt seem to me to be from anyone who ever Reffed under 12 matches. Another person asked me where I got a quote from. It was directly out of LOTG by IFAB. How should I have replied?

blueslipper said:

I dont care for your arrogance either. The first replies i saw here didnt seem to me to be from anyone who ever Reffed under 12 matches. Another person asked me where I got a quote from. It was directly out of LOTG by IFAB. How should I have replied?

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The first two responses were from people who are involved with youth football, one as a tutor and mentor of young referees, the other as an active referee.
In answer to your question "How should I have replied?", a polite reply would be a good idea if you actually want views and guidance from the many experienced match officials on here.

This isn’t a great start, and warning points have now been issued for comments attacking other members.

We won’t stand for it. This is a public warning to everyone. We’ve seen far too much of this recently and now we’re drawing a line.

As for your original post, you asked a question and the overriding consensus is you made a mistake - albeit a minor one.

Please do ask questions; it is why we are here. But the flipside to that is you must be prepared for people to point out if you are wrong in law and in doing so, how to avoid doing so in future. This is vital to your future development.

I urge you to take the advice in this spirit, as intended and not react angrily because people disagreed. I hope you’re able to stick around and draw from this group as a resource for making the most of your refereeing.

I did not attack other members. I did not react angrily. I think it’s an interesting situation thst I described- pity others didn’t react well

In another world I used to train people how to question others in order to obtain the most accurate information you could and of course before being able to train others I myself had to be trained to be a trainer and facilitate discussions in an adult classroom environment. So the main thrust of the training was always to approach situations with an ‘open mind’ and things to avoid were our internal bias when asking questions (and reading answers) confirmation bias, unconscious bias and cognitive bias . Another thing taught to me whilst learning to be a trainer is not to ‘answer hunt’ and by that I mean keep pushing for an answer that fits my understanding from the outset and ignoring other answers that are different to my original thoughts.

My thoughts on your original question is that the player should not be penalised for an offside offence as such an offence does not happen.

blueslipper said:

I did not attack other members. I did not react angrily. I think it’s an interesting situation thst I described- pity others didn’t react well

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In an attempt to try to diffuse the situation, here's how I see it.

Using the term "try reading it sometime(s)" in reference to the LOTG to anyone one on here, let alone an experienced referee, is - in it's most generous interpretation - not a constructive response, and to all intents and purposes is insulting to all of us on this forum who either know it like the back of their hand or regularly refer to it. Equally, assuming that we don't know what it's like refereeing in our 3rd game or at U12s is misplaced - we all refereed our third game once, and many of us have, or still do, referee younger age groups. Any game cann be challenging but we all know that youth football comes with it's unique challenges (eg parents, 'what the game expects' v what the LOTG expect/demands).

It is an interesting situation, and you've come on here to check your decision - that's a fundamentally good sign for a new ref. For those of us largely operating on our own in lower level grassroots leagues without NARs, this forum is our chance to learn, obtain advice and "sense check" our decisions and experiences.

However, when you ask a question and the overwhelming consensus is that you got your decision wrong, that's nothing to take offence at especially when explanations as to why it was wrong have been given.

We all get decisions wrong, and even when we get them right will be told we are wrong. This is our one refuge where when someone is saying you were wrong, it's because they're trying to help and not making an excuse for why their team lost. It's not criticism of you, and shouldn't be taken that way.

It will be a shame for your development if your first experience here puts you off using this forum, but hopefully we can all chalk this up to experience and you can find it the invaluable vehicle for advice and support that we all (or the vasy majority of us at least) do.

<self moderated>

blueslipper said:

a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball, this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball

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one said:

Where did you get this from?

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JamesL said:

Text from law 11. The last part.which covers order of law 11 and law 12 in offside situations.

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Although I don't feel there is an obligation to, I think it helps to explain the reason I asked where the quote in reference to LOTG was taken from.
The language used in the dot point was as though it came from a guideline/consideration. The intent was to say the main criteria of a law trumps any guideline or consideration.

In any case that point wouldn't apply to the OP as it requires "interference with the movement of the opponent" which was not the case in OP. I think the decision was made based on had the keeper moved there would have been interference, which is not how the law is to be applied.

blueslipper said:

I
was refereeing an under 12s match – level C.

Attacking team pass forward to player standing on goal line on edge of penalty area in offside position.

Ball obviously deflected by defending player, so it looks like it is going to be a corner.

The attacking player standing on goal line on edge of penalty area in offside position does not move-

he is about 10 metres away from the ball when it crosses the goal line. No other player from either team anywhere near ball or offside player.

If the player was not there, you would expect the goalkeeper to stop the ball going for a corner- he could run over there and kick it out or up the sideline.

Goalkeeper though does not move even though the ball is travelling fairly slowly.

I give freekick for offside and try to give explanation as to why to the players.

As I said- if that player was not standing there, the Goalkeeper would have tried to prevent a corner.

Because the player was there, the Goalkeeper
seemed worried of conceding a goal, so he stayed still.

According to the Laws of the game though, I am not sure I can justify the decision.

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".......give an explanation as to why ..." sounds like the players might have known what the correct decision should have been.

No great matter so long as you didn't caution for dissent the attacking player if he complained about it!

He won't be writing to PGMOL for an explanation.

Reincarnation of @Ciley Myrus ?

(inside joke for those who have been here long enough and have seen the deleted posts)

Many of us do know what it is like to referee u12s... I will be doing so on Saturday. The majority of the game you are basically preparing them for the LOTG that come into force when they move up to 11 a side. What I love about refereeing this age is that they are not so desperate to learn the LOTG, they are just desperate to play. What will seems like a huge decision for us will be a very small decision to them and in the end you might find they do not care as much as we think they do. Please don't let situations like this stress you as much as you have. Just enjoy the game along with the kids, they become a bigger challenge and a bigger problem when they grow older!