The Ref Stop

Brentford v Man Utd

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Surely Webb will have to come out and apologise for this. Imho right up there with the worst errors of the VAR era and a nightmare for grassroots refs.
 
The Ref Stop
cwyeary said:
The VAR team doesn't personally write them but the person who does uses the language that the VAR tells the ref/broadcasters. They're all in the same room.
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They need to do much better then. Comes across like they're watching different incidents
 
es1 said:
They need to do much better then. Comes across like they're watching different incidents
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That's what makes this one so bad IMO. The Chelsea/Fulham one could be seen as a poor use of judgment but this makes it look like the VAR doesn't know the laws.
 
The fact that the referee missed a DOGSO is not good but acceptable in real time. The fact that VAR didn't intervene is not acceptable given the replays he has. Who is at fault is not very clear but one thing it points to clearly is a broken system.
 
cwyeary said:
The VAR team doesn't personally write them but the person who does uses the language that the VAR tells the ref/broadcasters. They're all in the same room.
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I doubt they have one comms person for each game, it will just be one person covering all of the games being played. Granted there was only one game at this time, but I'd be amazed if they had 5 comms people for the 3pm games. But even if they did it is still a non-referee having to take what a bunch of referees have said and putting that into a post. If I listened to someone fixing my boiler telling me what he had done I very much doubt I could accurately reflect that in a social media post.

There should either get an actual PGMOL referee to do it, or perhaps one of the managers who is an ex-PGMOL referee, or scrap the posts altogether. Whilst telling people what was decided and why is a good idea in principle, it becomes counter productive if what is posted is incorrect in law or uses incorrect terminology.
 
Pace, running angle, distance, all make DOGSO very subjective if the player doesn’t have the ball. VAR didn’t see enough to overrule the on field decision, and they have more angles. If he’d sent him off. They’d have stuck with a red. Seems to follow guidelines, I would be surprised if it’s mentioned again.

Cam and audio footage would be nice to see.
 
VeryBaldRef said:
Pace, running angle, distance, all make DOGSO very subjective if the player doesn’t have the ball. VAR didn’t see enough to overrule the on field decision, and they have more angles. If he’d sent him off. They’d have stuck with a red. Seems to follow guidelines, I would be surprised if it’s mentioned again.

Cam and audio footage would be nice to see.
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Come on. Do you really believe this wasn’t nailed on DOGSO?

I’d love a Uefa/Fifa/Ifab or local training clip with a similar scenario where any experienced official says this is not D…
 
VeryBaldRef said:
Pace, running angle, distance, all make DOGSO very subjective if the player doesn’t have the ball. VAR didn’t see enough to overrule the on field decision, and they have more angles. If he’d sent him off. They’d have stuck with a red. Seems to follow guidelines, I would be surprised if it’s mentioned again.

Cam and audio footage would be nice to see.
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I feel that some refs still give yellow in the hope VAR will save them if wrong rather than give red and look like an idiot if told to review. Safe refereeing. Especially with recent events such as the Fulham incident.
 
VeryBaldRef said:
Pace, running angle, distance, all make DOGSO very subjective if the player doesn’t have the ball. VAR didn’t see enough to overrule the on field decision, and they have more angles. If he’d sent him off. They’d have stuck with a red. Seems to follow guidelines, I would be surprised if it’s mentioned again.

Cam and audio footage would be nice to see.
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I'm not sure what is subjective about this, the ball was clearly going to Mbembo's foot and he would of had an clear attempt at goal. The only reason he doesn't is because he got dragged back by the shoulder area therefore it's not an attempt/challenge for the ball and should be a red.

I dont think there is anything wrong with the tweet, I suspect the VAR is hiding behind the referees call nonsense and the fact the ball was not at his foot when the infringment occured.

I suspect this will get included on Mic'd up and see Webb's reaction to it.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
I feel that some refs still give yellow in the hope VAR will save them if wrong rather than give red and look like an idiot if told to review. Safe refereeing. Especially with recent events such as the Fulham incident.
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I wouldn’t call it safe refereeing, I’d call that bad refereeing—especially in the PL that wants a very high bar for VAR intervention.

I’m not sure how PL refs are evaluated, but they should be getting dinged for missing calls on the field—even if rescued by VAR. So their self interest should be to get the call right in the first place. So I do ‘t think they are consciously deciding to make a call different from the one they think is right, but may have some subconscious effect.
 
socal lurker said:
I wouldn’t call it safe refereeing, I’d call that bad refereeing—especially in the PL that wants a very high bar for VAR intervention.

I’m not sure how PL refs are evaluated, but they should be getting dinged for missing calls on the field—even if rescued by VAR. So their self interest should be to get the call right in the first place. So I do ‘t think they are consciously deciding to make a call different from the one they think is right, but may have some subconscious effect.
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They do, even if VAR corrects them they get an incorrect KMD, and as I've said before I can't understand why any referee would see something but not give it because they'd rather VAR correct them, even though they know it will get them a 7.9. As I said earlier in the chat, most red cards this season have been given by the referee, pretty sure only the Anthony Gordon vs Liverpool and Trevor Chalobah yesterday have come via VAR intervention.
 
Sadly this game was not included on the mic'd up show(which will only fuel the arguments that the show almost virtually show the clips that Webb agrees with) so we won't know what Webb thoughts are but I stand by what I said in my previous post in this thread which this is by far a worse error by the VAR than the Chelsea Fulham incident. Even as a non referee myself, I know full well no attempt to challenge for the ball is a DOGSO red card and whilst the ball was not at the attackers feet, it was coming to him and he would have a clear chance to score but was prevented from doing so by unfair play which was not fully punished as it should do.
 
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