The Ref Stop

Are Temporary Dismissals (Sin-Bins) Mandatory When Issuing Dissent Cautions?

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Ref_Dad

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My understanding (and that of my youth referee son) was that in England all dissent cautions (except at the higher levels of the game), must be accompanied by a temporary dismissal (sin-bin).

However, this season, in his games as an U18 player, my son and I have seen so many dissent cautions issued [none to him, thankfully!] without the accompanying temporary dismissal, that we are beginning to think that our understanding must be incorrect.

Can anyone confirm (with a link to an authoritative source / reference if possible) whether the issuing of a temporary dismissal is mandatory when a referee cautions a player for dissent by word or action*, or whether the referee actually has some wriggle-room to issue to a caution for dissent without also enforcing a temporary dismissal.

If it is not mandatory, then a link to any instructions / guidance regarding in what circumstances the temporary dismissal should / should not be issued would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

*I appreciate that the use of temporary dismissals varies with country. This question is specific to where my son referees (grassroots-level football in England) . I don't think the following will affect the answer, but if the answer is in any way different for open age and youth age-groups, or for women's / girls football, then an answer for each group would be helpful, as although my son currently only referees youth football (including both mixed and girls teams), he may move up to refereeing open age football in the near future.
 
The Ref Stop
To my understanding, they're mandatory for all grassroots football in England and all levels of the FA pyramid up to and including step 5 of the national league system. Not used in step 4 (Southern/Northern/Isthmian Div One) and above. They're also used in the FA Vase, but not in the FA Trophy or FA Cup (reason being these competitions feature clubs from Step 4 and above, where as the FA Vase doesn't).

Some 'old school' referees don't like using them and take it upon themselves to either call the caution 'adopting an aggressive attitude' and therefore not requiring a sin bin, or just ignore the rule and still call it dissent but not use the bin.
Both of these are wrong, as adopting an aggressive attitude is intended to be for totally different scenarios.
 
Yes, sin bins are mandatory if cautioning for showing dissent in grass roots football in England. This is stated on the infographic on the attached website.

Sin Bins

Temporary dismissals also known as ‘sin bins’ have been implemented across all levels of grassroots football to improve levels of respect and fair play
www.englandfootball.com www.englandfootball.com

As RefereeX says, some older referees don’t like sin bins so don’t use them, and will probably caution for something else instead. Otherwise when submitting the caution they have to explain why they issued a C2 but not a C2 (sin bins)
 
Otherwise when submitting the caution they have to explain why they issued a C2 but not a C2 (sin bins)
Click to expand...
Presumably this would be only if a sin-bin would be inappropriate (and ineffective) because the cautioned individual could take no further part in the game anyway?
e.g. Dissent when already cautioned (so will be dismissed), dissent after the final whistle (so no game-time to serve), dissent from a non-player or a substituted player.
I hadn't even thought of those scenarios when asking the question.
 
Ref_Dad said:
Presumably this would be only if a sin-bin would be inappropriate (and ineffective) because the cautioned individual could take no further part in the game anyway?
e.g. Dissent when already cautioned (so will be dismissed), dissent after the final whistle (so no game-time to serve), dissent from a non-player or a substituted player.
I hadn't even thought of those scenarios when asking the question.
Click to expand...
Absolutely correct.
 
And dissent from a substitute who has not yet been used, to add to the list.
Ref_Dad said:
Presumably this would be only if a sin-bin would be inappropriate (and ineffective) because the cautioned individual could take no further part in the game anyway?
e.g. Dissent when already cautioned (so will be dismissed), dissent after the final whistle (so no game-time to serve), dissent from a non-player or a substituted player.
I hadn't even thought of those scenarios when asking the question.
Click to expand...
 
Ref_Dad said:
Presumably this would be only if a sin-bin would be inappropriate (and ineffective) because the cautioned individual could take no further part in the game anyway?
e.g. Dissent when already cautioned (so will be dismissed), dissent after the final whistle (so no game-time to serve), dissent from a non-player or a substituted player.
I hadn't even thought of those scenarios when asking the question.
Click to expand...
Yeah, only time I've had to use that drop down is dissent from a player as he's stepping off the pitch to be substituted.
 
There are an alarming number of referees who make no effort to keep up with law changes, it is probably a combination of these, along with those that class it as adopting an aggressive attitude to avoid using sin bins, that you are witnessing. It isn't just sin bins, I saw a referee insisting that goal kicks had to leave the penalty area and kick off have to go forward 🤦‍♂️

If no one reports them they will just carry on incorrectly applying law.
 
RustyRef said:
There are an alarming number of referees who make no effort to keep up with law changes, it is probably a combination of these, along with those that class it as adopting an aggressive attitude to avoid using sin bins, that you are witnessing. It isn't just sin bins, I saw a referee insisting that goal kicks had to leave the penalty area and kick off have to go forward 🤦‍♂️

If no one reports them they will just carry on incorrectly applying law.
Click to expand...
A major part of why I think the 7-6/6-5 MDC system is broken. Would overhaul it from Step 4 down.
 
Archer said:
A major part of why I think the 7-6/6-5 MDC system is broken. Would overhaul it from Step 4 down.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't help, as the referees I'm talking about have never even considered going for promotion. It is the typical in it just for the money brigade, they want to make as much money as possible for as little effort as they can get away with, and that includes avoiding keeping current on laws and putting in caution and misconduct reports.

Although I do happen to agree that a promotion system where no mark is awarded is fundamentally flawed. Some CFAs automatically promote if the criteria is met, which means a referee with major flaws in their game can be promoted to L5 regardless. That doesn't help appointments officers who have a right to assume that someone at L6 or L5 has gone through at least some level of quality control. But at least someone who has gone through the MDC pathway will have to know the current laws as they are tested on it, other referees might not have even looked at the LoTG for 30 years.
 
Ref_Dad said:
Presumably this would be only if a sin-bin would be inappropriate (and ineffective) because the cautioned individual could take no further part in the game anyway?
e.g. Dissent when already cautioned (so will be dismissed), dissent after the final whistle (so no game-time to serve), dissent from a non-player or a substituted player.
I hadn't even thought of those scenarios when asking the question.
Click to expand...
A dissent sin bin now works just like any other yellow card. So there is no need for it to be replaced by another type of yellow card for it to be effective. Sin bin just an addition to whatever happens for a normal yellow.

Of the example you mentioned, keep in mind that sin bin only applies to 'PLAYERS' and for the duration of the game.

Refollie said:
And dissent from a substitute who has not yet been used, to add to the list.
Click to expand...
As above, sin bin doesn't apply even if you wanted it to apply.
 
Ref_Dad said:
My understanding (and that of my youth referee son) was that in England all dissent cautions (except at the higher levels of the game), must be accompanied by a temporary dismissal (sin-bin).

However, this season, in his games as an U18 player, my son and I have seen so many dissent cautions issued [none to him, thankfully!] without the accompanying temporary dismissal, that we are beginning to think that our understanding must be incorrect.

Can anyone confirm (with a link to an authoritative source / reference if possible) whether the issuing of a temporary dismissal is mandatory when a referee cautions a player for dissent by word or action*, or whether the referee actually has some wriggle-room to issue to a caution for dissent without also enforcing a temporary dismissal.

If it is not mandatory, then a link to any instructions / guidance regarding in what circumstances the temporary dismissal should / should not be issued would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

*I appreciate that the use of temporary dismissals varies with country. This question is specific to where my son referees (grassroots-level football in England) . I don't think the following will affect the answer, but if the answer is in any way different for open age and youth age-groups, or for women's / girls football, then an answer for each group would be helpful, as although my son currently only referees youth football (including both mixed and girls teams), he may move up to refereeing open age football in the near future.
Click to expand...
The simple answer is that Dissent (Sin Bin) applies to all Step 5 football and below. League or County FA "rules" don't come into it.
 
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