Constant dialogue with players

Hi everyone

I've got my training booked in for February and one Saturday I had nothing doing so went to the local fields to watch a OA game with the intention of watching the ref.

I have to say it looked hard work. Goalkeeper consistently shooting ref aren't we playing foul throws today over and over again and several players in constant dialogue with the ref whinging about decisions that had already gone, to the point were the ref missed a foul by the goalkeeper at a goal kick (blatant double touch) because he was explaining to a player about a earlier incident which that is was the ref shouted 'sorry, I missed it, I was talking '.

Just seemed like hard work!!

Is this a case of losing control of the players or is this a normal game?

Anything he could have done to do it? Dish out some cautions, maybe?

sounds pretty normal tbf. that said sounds like the ref could be stronger initially in cutting this low level 'dissent'/chat out to make sure it doesn't progress/intensify through the game.

when i'm reffing i'm regularly talking/exchanging views to various players all over the pitch through the game.

It is hard work! But that's what makes it so rewarding.
Nobody that has never refereed a football match will ever have any idea what it's like to referee a football match, even if they think they could imagine... they can't. It'll also give you an entirely new perspective when watching football matches. I went to watch my team on Monday for the first time in a while and you sit and cringe listening to some of the shouts that I formerly probably would have joined in with.

You have tools to help you control a game, but communicating with players is vital. If you don't talk to them, they'll think you're arrogant and they'll make your life harder, but don't waste too much time talking to them, and certainly not over minor decisions.

Good luck!

At the grassroots level, this is what it's like. My advice: use your tools effectively. For dissent, use sin bins, especially if the dissent is clear. For reckless challenges, issue a caution; there's no need to over-explain your decision. Also, for careless fouls, once the free kick is awarded, move away and get the play restarted promptly to avoid arguments or talking over the decision. If you are refereeing in a local league, teams will soon get to know you and understand the consequences of showing dissent. I would suggest not trying to manage it; use the tools we have, like the sin bin, and teams will soon cut out the dissent like you witnessed.

Egg man said:

At the grassroots level, this is what it's like. My advice: use your tools effectively. For dissent, use sin bins, especially if the dissent is clear. For reckless challenges, issue a caution; there's no need to over-explain your decision. Also, for careless fouls, once the free kick is awarded, move away and get the play restarted promptly to avoid arguments or talking over the decision. If you are refereeing in a local league, teams will soon get to know you and understand the consequences of showing dissent. I would suggest not trying to manage it; use the tools we have, like the sin bin, and teams will soon cut out the dissent like you witnessed.

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Good advice, though is also good enough for those levels above, except for the use of sin bins which are not in place for Steps 4 and above - though a straight caution or managed stepped approach depending on the circumstances etc would be the replacement for actions of Dissent.

Egg man said:

At the grassroots level, this is what it's like. My advice: use your tools effectively. For dissent, use sin bins, especially if the dissent is clear. For reckless challenges, issue a caution; there's no need to over-explain your decision. Also, for careless fouls, once the free kick is awarded, move away and get the play restarted promptly to avoid arguments or talking over the decision. If you are refereeing in a local league, teams will soon get to know you and understand the consequences of showing dissent. I would suggest not trying to manage it; use the tools we have, like the sin bin, and teams will soon cut out the dissent like you witnessed.

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Obviously for things like reckless challenges you just say you're cautioning for a reckless challenge and move on. Disagree re sin bins. People management is a vital skill for a referee. Those who don't have it tend to get found out as they progress. Players will always give their opinion, and sometimes I'll engage with them in a variety if different ways dependent on their personality etc. But I'd always advocate the stepped approach, or at least one rung of the stepped approach before sin binning (obviously if it's ridiculous dissent then that's easy). Have a word a tell them you're not having it, and then most importantly stop the game when the ball goes out of play, call the offender over to you and give a clear warning that the next piece of dissent by word or action is sin bin time. That way when you sin bin someone, everyone has seen that you've given the player a clear warning and that it's their fault they continued. Once you've given one sin bin the other players behaviour tends to improve. But always look to work with people first, particularly at grass roots. Don't be a robot, show some personality.

Ben448844 said:

Obviously for things like reckless challenges you just say you're cautioning for a reckless challenge and move on. Disagree re sin bins. People management is a vital skill for a referee. Those who don't have it tend to get found out as they progress. Players will always give their opinion, and sometimes I'll engage with them in a variety if different ways dependent on their personality etc. But I'd always advocate the stepped approach, or at least one rung of the stepped approach before sin binning (obviously if it's ridiculous dissent then that's easy). Have a word a tell them you're not having it, and then most importantly stop the game when the ball goes out of play, call the offender over to you and give a clear warning that the next piece of dissent by word or action is sin bin time. That way when you sin bin someone, everyone has seen that you've given the player a clear warning and that it's their fault they continued. Once you've given one sin bin the other players behaviour tends to improve. But always look to work with people first, particularly at grass roots. Don't be a robot, show some personality.

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I agree with using the step approach, but if it doesn’t work, we need to utilise the tools at our disposal. Otherwise, games can get out of hand, and you might lose control, as it appeared the referee did in the original post.

Sounds like the ref in the OP failing to recognise and act on low level dissent and over-explaining decisions.

So, yes, that makes it hard work and it makes “a rod for your own back.”

Now go and watch a higher level ref at the top of their game, better still listen on comms (by working as their AR). You will hear them proactively concisely explain non-decisions. You will also see how they avoid situations where players can have running arguments. You will also see and hear how they choose the right moment to change tone/character.

Egg man said:

I agree with using the step approach, but if it doesn’t work, we need to utilise the tools at our disposal. Otherwise, games can get out of hand, and you might lose control, as it appeared the referee did in the original post.

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It's all about being able to manage people. Whilst I agree there may be times where management is pointless and you just need to dish out the card, if thats regularly happening then it may be time to work on some man management skills. It doesn't sound like the ref in the opening post lost control, it sounds like he's got sucked in to constant debates about decisions. But I'd be happy to explain decisions, but it would always be very brief and it would not be a debate. I'd tell them what I've seen and now we're moving on. If it was getting too much I'd tell them so and they'd be left knowing very clearly that I've had enough, but I'd still maintain a dialogue with them after for sure.

I haven't given a single sin bin this season, not needed to. The threat has always been enough. But the next game might require 2 sin bins and theyd get them. But I see the first piece of dissent almost as a positive. Gives me chance to show the players empathy but also show them that I'm going to sin bin them if it happens again. Who can ask more than that?

The key for me is confidence when dealing with players and coaches and being assertive. But managing players & showing your personality on the pitch should and will always be an important part of a referees armour. Refs that don't have that will always find it difficult.

Low level "dissent" can be managed any number of times during a game (unless it's the same player) but clear, loud and obvious dissent is always getting the card.

Kes said:

Low level "dissent" can be managed any number of times during a game (unless it's the same player) but clear, loud and obvious dissent is always getting the card.

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What I learnt (on here and IRL) is that it’s important to recognize and act early on low level dissent. The idea is to give a ceremonial warning so it doesn’t continue during the game.

santa sangria said:

What I learnt (on here and IRL) is that it’s important to recognize and act early on low level dissent. The idea is to give a ceremonial warning so it doesn’t continue during the game.

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Yeah I'd tend to agree, so long as the ceremonial warning is loud enough and obvious enough that all on the field can clock it. If I employ that method in my game though, it's normally after one or two utterings have irritated or distracted me to the point that I'm pulling the card out for the next one - hence the reason for the warning being loud enough for all.

Kes said:

Yeah I'd tend to agree, so long as the ceremonial warning is loud enough and obvious enough that all on the field can clock it. If I employ that method in my game though, it's normally after one or two utterings have irritated or distracted me to the point that I'm pulling the card out for the next one - hence the reason for the warning being loud enough for all.

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Exactly. The idea is to recognize it early - and give the big ceremonial warning - not try to laugh it off on the run. And the warning is not really for the one player in front of you, it’s meant for the whole match - and it makes it easy to give a YC to the next player if it continues.