The Ref Stop

Open Age no name sin bin / red card

K

Kent Ref

RefChat Addict
A colleague of mine sin binned a player and subsequently sent him off for refusal to give any name. After asking 3 times and the captain saying "it's his choice not to give a name" the referee had no option. Even after the game the manager refused to name him.

The ref has reffed this team many times in the last year and has never seen this player before.

He suspects the player may be unregistered.

I know the county will ask for this player's name BUT what stops them from naming any registered player (i.e one that never plays) to avoid a suspension and letting them use an unregistered player?

The fine cannot be dodged but the suspension and playing an unregistered player can be.

I know a team sheet is submitted to the league after each game but that list may be untruthful.

Seems too easy to avoid justice. The team won the game 3-1.
 
The Ref Stop
All you can do is report what you were given. Whether that be Mickey Mouse or no name at all. Then let the County deal with the rest.

In theory a player could be under a sine die ban and a club still fields them under a false name. At grassroots, there will always be an element of trust required that clubs adhere to these things. But I wouldn’t lose sleep over it. After all, all you can do is control the controllables. And this isn’t really something you can control.
 
Kent Ref said:
A colleague of mine sin binned a player and subsequently sent him off for refusal to give any name. After asking 3 times and the captain saying "it's his choice not to give a name" the referee had no option. Even after the game the manager refused to name him.

The ref has reffed this team many times in the last year and has never seen this player before.

He suspects the player may be unregistered.

I know the county will ask for this player's name BUT what stops them from naming any registered player (i.e one that never plays) to avoid a suspension and letting them use an unregistered player?

The fine cannot be dodged but the suspension and playing an unregistered player can be.

I know a team sheet is submitted to the league after each game but that list may be untruthful.

Seems too easy to avoid justice. The team won the game 3-1.
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Easy to say after the match, could the referee have approached the manager before restarting the match for the players name, threaten abandonment if not provided, useful that they may have been winning at the time too?
 
GraemeS said:
Abandonment is an overreaction to something that is basically an administrative issue.
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Why? your authority is totally undermined by the manager and the captain, for this match the team sheets are submitted after the game, so this team must know their players names. Maybe I am alone here by I would follow through with abandonment.
 
This has nothing to do with the referee. Ask for the name and if he won't give it just report it as that via an extraordinary incident and let the CFA / League sort it out.
 
RustyRef said:
This has nothing to do with the referee. Ask for the name and if he won't give it just report it as that via an extraordinary incident and let the CFA / League sort it out.
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i know we cannot do anything i am trying to understand the mechanics of what the CFA can do "after the event".
 
Kent Ref said:
i know we cannot do anything i am trying to understand the mechanics of what the CFA can do "after the event".
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The CFA may not be able to do anything either. People will always find ways of circumventing rules. If enough cases are raised, the reality ultimately will be in the league taking a dim view of the club and perhaps taking stronger action, but it just might never be resolved.

The bottom line is that as referees we can just do our bit properly, and let others worry about any wider issues.
 
DJIC said:
Why? your authority is totally undermined by the manager and the captain, for this match the team sheets are submitted after the game, so this team must know their players names. Maybe I am alone here by I would follow through with abandonment.
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It isn't. Just referee the game as normal and deal with the situation. "Name please", "no", "I will give you one more chance, name please", "no". "Ok yellow card for the sin bin". That's it. Put in a report that the player refused to give his name and never think of it again. On to the next one
 
Kent Ref said:
i know we cannot do anything i am trying to understand the mechanics of what the CFA can do "after the event".
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Whether the player was registered or not isn't really anything to do with the CFA either, that is down to the league.

The CFA will contact the club and ask them the name of the player. They will either have to offer up an innocent player's name or send the name of the actual player. With the former it won't flag any alarms, with the latter it might if the league are alert and realise that the player doesn't appear on the registrations list.
 
RustyRef said:
Whether the player was registered or not isn't really anything to do with the CFA either, that is down to the league.

The CFA will contact the club and ask them the name of the player. They will either have to offer up an innocent player's name or send the name of the actual player. With the former it won't flag any alarms, with the latter it might if the league are alert and realise that the player doesn't appear on the registrations list.
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Remember, the club will get an extra fine for the player not giving his name.

But, the better one, I have seen it where they did this with a "ringer" and gave the wrong name. He then tried playing a few days later for another team and it was found out he was "suspended"... A whole world of pain and fines were levied on the first team by the CFA
 
lincs22 said:
Remember, the club will get an extra fine for the player not giving his name.

But, the better one, I have seen it where they did this with a "ringer" and gave the wrong name. He then tried playing a few days later for another team and it was found out he was "suspended"... A whole world of pain and fines were levied on the first team by the CFA
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Had this pre-season last year. Two clubs who clearly all knew each other. One of the cautions, player gave a name which was actually one of the opponents. A second caution saw THAT named player give a different name (someone they both knew or something). All good fun and banter until I put the cautions through, and county gave me a phone call. Both clubs hit with a don’t ever do this again cricket bat. Was quite fun being cc’d in the email chain between county and the clubs and seeing them all explain it.
 
There
Runner Ref said:
All you can do is report what you were given. Whether that be Mickey Mouse or no name at all. Then let the County deal with the rest.

In theory a player could be under a sine die ban and a club still fields them under a false name. At grassroots, there will always be an element of trust required that clubs adhere to these things. But I wouldn’t lose sleep over it. After all, all you can do is control the controllables. And this isn’t really something you can control.
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we actually had a guy up here legitimately called Micheal Mouse I wouldn’t of believed it had we not had team sheets 😂
 
Kent Ref said:
A colleague of mine sin binned a player and subsequently sent him off for refusal to give any name. After asking 3 times and the captain saying "it's his choice not to give a name" the referee had no option. Even after the game the manager refused to name him.

The ref has reffed this team many times in the last year and has never seen this player before.

He suspects the player may be unregistered.

I know the county will ask for this player's name BUT what stops them from naming any registered player (i.e one that never plays) to avoid a suspension and letting them use an unregistered player?

The fine cannot be dodged but the suspension and playing an unregistered player can be.

I know a team sheet is submitted to the league after each game but that list may be untruthful.

Seems too easy to avoid justice. The team won the game 3-1.
Click to expand...

I understand the not giving name and reporting as such (I mean, if he refuses and report it, not saying the player can refuse)... But surely noting a shirt number and referring to team sheet will provide said name after the game, if not already written in the book (some refs write them in each game, others don't).

If you have the name via the team sheet, then report as refuse to give name, but based on team sheet, and numbered shirt, I now know the player as Mickey mouse...

Is this an option?

I know in the leagues I do, all have to provide shirt number on sheets so it's very easy to combine the two later. If what's given on pitch differs, I mention it in report.
Also, and it can be a hard tactic to master, players that are picking up stupid fouls, giving you grief (where you might end up cautioning for dissent) etc, try and listen out to his/her name when they have the ball. Players will call out their name when wanting the ball, or shout something like "jack, mark that player," etc...
I've managed to learn a few players names that way and when I want a quiet "fly by" word, I go by and say "jack, watch yourself, that's a couple now"... They're stunned I know their name and sometimes it actually stops them, too, committing more.
 
A favourite of mine was the Italian player in a local league, no stranger to referees' notebooks(!)
In a County Cup semi-final I cautioned him, and he gave me an English name.
I quietly said "You want me to report that name, Carlo?"
"Yes" he said.
Sadly he missed the Cup Final, as his suspension was extended. 😒
 
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