Thresholds with the bench

So I have been running the line a fair bit. I also get a decent run at being Senior AR.

Just checking peoples tolerances for the bench.

So stuff that happens most week. I tell the gaffer to stop stepping outside his white box. They call me a jobsworth and tell me to basically look for all the fouls/offsides I've missed. What do you do here. Just ignore it and act if they step out of the box again, or bring the ref over for a warning or yellow card. Genuinely what do you do, not what would you do. Even issue a verbal warning yourself. "Mate don't speak to me like that".

Secondly do you bring the ref over for a warning. Or do you only call them over for a card. Or do you get them to specify in pre-match.

Just trying to gauge the threshold for tolerance. I always feel like ref in the middle is trying for club points, so by bringing them over to book the manager, you sort of bomb his score. Now I know the majority will back you but just a bit of an annoyance for the ref in the middle.

OldNavyRef said:

So I have been running the line a fair bit. I also get a decent run at being Senior AR.

Just checking peoples tolerances for the bench.

So stuff that happens most week. I tell the gaffer to stop stepping outside his white box. They call me a jobsworth and tell me to basically look for all the fouls/offsides I've missed. What do you do here. Just ignore it and act if they step out of the box again, or bring the ref over for a warning or yellow card. Genuinely what do you do, not what would you do. Even issue a verbal warning yourself. "Mate don't speak to me like that".

Secondly do you bring the ref over for a warning. Or do you only call them over for a card. Or do you get them to specify in pre-match.

Just trying to gauge the threshold for tolerance. I always feel like ref in the middle is trying for club points, so by bringing them over to book the manager, you sort of bomb his score. Now I know the majority will back you but just a bit of an annoyance for the ref in the middle.

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Hopefully the Referee would have provided you with some advice concerning the TAs during his/her pre match instructions and if not, then to ask. I would like to think that the Referee must know how difficult it can be with the Senior or Specialist AR to manage TAs, especially if one or both are/become troublesome & will want to support his/her AR. In particular, tolerance levels plays a part & you will have yours & you would want your Referee to have provided guidance as to what approach he/she wants to take viz “once you have had enough, call me over during a stoppage etc”. Some Referees say that at this point they may just go ahead with formal misconduct action because you have already provided them with a warning or some may say, depending upon what you say to them, they may give them a warning. You are entitled to say to the TA’s at any point “don’t talk to me like that”, though best not to say mate (which they could take offence to) & replace it with “please …..”.

Firstly, if you're not getting any guidance on TA management in the pre match you need to ask for it. Whilst we all have our own tolerances we have to try and adjust them so that as a team we are on the same page

A good starting point is to approach both benches before kick off introduce yourself, remind then about standing rules etc and that by doing so allows you to concentrate on the real action. This tells them you are monitoring and dealing with it before its started.

Once we have set these boundaries a reasonable process to follow is ask, tell, warn, report. Just with the stepped approach more serious offence can see escalation of whatever stage you're at.

If they moan at you about on field stuff, just put it back on them. They are the ones not behaving as they should be and ultimately that is taking your attention away from the green stuff.

I'm a big fan of deliberately running in to any manager who's outside his box down my end

GraemeS said:

I'm a big fan of deliberately running in to any manager who's outside his box down my end

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I may or may not have done the exact same recently. Certainly didn’t leave his technical area after that.

GraemeS said:

I'm a big fan of deliberately running in to any manager who's outside his box down my end

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Oh the temptation is always there! Not been senior yet but had one the other week where a spectator deliberately stood in front of the barrier. My flag swung a fair amount when I changed direction

Gabriel said:

Oh the temptation is always there! Not been senior yet but had one the other week where a spectator deliberately stood in front of the barrier. My flag swung a fair amount when I changed direction

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Ref should be picking up on this and having said person repositioned behind the barrier. If he doesn't notice you need to draw it to his attention

JamesL said:

Ref should be picking up on this and having said person repositioned behind the barrier. If he doesn't notice you need to draw it to his attention

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He did deal with it next stoppage (as he wasn't causing any issue during play). Only happened once.

Always have a brief chat with them before kick off, introduce yourself, tell them to shout to you when they need a sub, set out your expectation on standing (which the referee should have given to you in the pre-match), etc. If they are out of their TA and it isn't causing a problem I'd ask nicely a couple of times, then just leave it, you're on a hiding to nothing given just about every top level manager does it. Certainly when I was 4th official on the National League most referees said to not worry about managers being out of the TA as long as it was minimal and not for the whole game. If it is causing a problem, such as getting in your way, getting too close to opponent's TA, or getting too close / onto the pitch you need to warn them that if they don't listen to you then you will have no choice but to call the referee over.

If they are moaning about decisions there are a lot of factors to consider. How loud and public, your tolerance levels, referee instructions, etc. I would normally ignore them and even smile at them if it was just general moaning, often when they realise they aren't getting to you they will give up.

OldNavyRef said:

So I have been running the line a fair bit. I also get a decent run at being Senior AR.

Just checking peoples tolerances for the bench.

So stuff that happens most week. I tell the gaffer to stop stepping outside his white box. They call me a jobsworth and tell me to basically look for all the fouls/offsides I've missed. What do you do here. Just ignore it and act if they step out of the box again, or bring the ref over for a warning or yellow card. Genuinely what do you do, not what would you do. Even issue a verbal warning yourself. "Mate don't speak to me like that".

Secondly do you bring the ref over for a warning. Or do you only call them over for a card. Or do you get them to specify in pre-match.

Just trying to gauge the threshold for tolerance. I always feel like ref in the middle is trying for club points, so by bringing them over to book the manager, you sort of bomb his score. Now I know the majority will back you but just a bit of an annoyance for the ref in the middle.

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I think it takes a peculiar personality to be a good Senior (in respect of communication with TAs)
First off, I think you have to love the game to the extent that TA occupants don't irritate you despite all of their antics
Empathy is probably top of the list. See everything from their perspective, together with the pressures and stresses they face. It's easy to forget how annoyed we can all get with referees
Equally, there's a line in the sand. If they cross it, our actions must be unequivocal. Breaching the TA line is probably the most frequent misdemeanour and it's always persistent. Constant gentle reminders will suffice IMO. Save your powder for bigger issues
Easy innit? From an armchair

I tend to do a lot of senior ARs of late. Same as a few above really, I don’t tend to get too particular about too many standing/managers leaving the technical area unless it’s egregious or the referee has specifically asked for it to be clamped down on.

My instruction when refereeing and the general position where I am is that ideally the referee should only be called over if a card is to be issued. So yes I’d be warning benches myself and trying to take a stepped approach before involving the ref where possible.

Big fan of the running into the manager trick - or at least shouting ‘MOVE’ in a nice booming voice while charging towards them… tends to get the message across.

A word with both benches is always helpful before KO, if only to tell the farthest bench away from the line to give me a big shout for a sub or I might miss them.

Echo the above, I've also had the manager in my way issue and worse is when they're in the area but right behind you bellowing. Good thing I'm already partially deaf!

Definitely get the Ref to set tolerance with you as a team, I've had different requests from refs from meeting their tolerance level to setting my own entirely. There's a balance to be struck for sure.

This wouldn't work these days now that there are cards for managers and coaches, but my old L3 coach taught me a trick which actually worked quite well. The accepted convention when an AR calls the referee over to speak to the benches was for the AR to be there as the telling off was administered. I used to tell my ARs not to come with me, then, assuming no one was getting removed, I could say to the offender something like "look, I was going to send you off but he (the AR) wants to give you another chance and hopes that I can make you see sense". It was making the AR the good guy and me the bad guy, the logic being that I could stay away from the TAs but he was stuck there. I can only remember one occasion where I was called over again and had to take action.

The law change completely killed that as an option though.

On this side of The Pond we're lucky to have marked TAs for any game below U-18! When I Center, I mark my own TAs with flat practice cones and make my expectations clear, even for WeeOne games. I completely agree with many of the others: ask 'em nicely, then engage your CR. Also, as suggested, if the CR doesn't bring this up in the pre-game, you need to do so.

As a trainer/mentor, I emphasize meeting coaches as a crew beforehand, explaining your needs as a crew (esp. ARs, and esp.-esp. AR1), asking for their cooperation, and building a bit of rapport ("we're in this together for the players"). I also suggest explaining to them why they want to comply; they screw up your sightlines otherwise and prevent you from doing what they expect you to do, which is making every call 100% correctly 100% of the time.

And PLEASE don't ignore the disrespect. It isn't about us as much as it is about the next ref and the ref after that. Remember that someone else is going to have exactly the same problem with that coach next game. What we put up with this week will only make it worse for the next AR1. Coaches do this because they feel they can get away with it, so don't let them!