Runner Ref
Active Member
It's common for youth tournaments to be used as trial environments. The officials will generally be ones that officiate in competitions that already have VAR etc. So it's not a random summer league with L5's refereeing it
VAR Vote
- Thread starter Gabriel
- Start date
Maybe they want to trial it in a match that actually has something riding on the outcome so that people use their challenges correctly - I don't know.
Runner Ref
Active Member
Which is exactly why I've said to give it a go. Gives them an element of control, but more importantly, accountability.
I've argued for and against a challenge system. It has merit but it does still also have it's flaws.
I'm not wanting to get into days long debate but I have raised the point before that this isn't necessarily a good thing, from a referee perspective anyway.
It rarely happens but let's say Joe Blogs challenges a referees decision. Fine. Ref plods to the monitor. Disagrees with coach. Decision is final. Cue whole footballing world in meltdown once more... What about they agree, but the rest of the world doesn't. Same again. Referees at the centre of controversy once more for, as is some times the case, the correct call.
We've still got that same problem we're craving to fix as far as I can see. Ultimately I feel it's worth a trial, but I dont think we'll be able to measure it's true success until it is used in a live elite environment. And be good to test whether the benefits for outweigh the negatives.
Just on a similar thought - I remember in cricket for example, when we won the Headingley ashes test in 2019, Australia had wasted their reviews and Ben Stokes should have been out LBW. Everyone blamed Australia for wasting their reviews and not one person blamed the umpire for an incorrect decision on the LBW. Would the same happen in football?! Who knows, but I suspect not.
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One hundred percent not. I'm an umpire as well, at the football equivalent of level 5, and the difference is massive. I have only ever had players shout at me/criticise me twice, one got 10 matches and the other 15. We would get blamed in football.
Article on the BBC...
Departing Liverpool boss Klopp 'would scrap VAR'
It's not quite as simple as the headline as suggests and more just a case of Klopp having a dig at the way VAR has been used.
But importantly...
If Liverpool are in favour I think that tells you all you need to know about which way the vote is likely to go.
Departing Liverpool boss Klopp 'would scrap VAR'
It's not quite as simple as the headline as suggests and more just a case of Klopp having a dig at the way VAR has been used.
But importantly...
If Liverpool are in favour I think that tells you all you need to know about which way the vote is likely to go.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Maybe? It's hard to tell, but I feel like as a ref, if the system existed to formally challenge and a player just chose to shout at me instead, I'd be far more willing to start throwing out dissent cautions.
That might change once reviews are wasted (although I would hope pundits at least would be smart enough to criticise managers for wasting reviews even if players aren't), but at the very least there should be no excuse or tolerance for any dissent while challenges are still available.
Aye, Ref makes a mistake with a review of a challenge... and it massively fuels the notion that managers know the game better than refs
Never thought of that. VAR already fuels hatred of Refs. Challenge System maybe gets a red card from me now. Just goes to show, as with everything, things that might appear like a good idea on the surface (VAR in general for instances)..... but once you drill down into all the potential consequences, it doesn't work out well. Where footy is concerned, there seems to be consequences involved with most change
We at least wouldn't need a caution for excessively making the TV signal anymore!
As I said not wanting to debate too much but a few months back there were another few page thread I was very active in at the time.where these points were debated. Time will tell but this is personally where I see a challenge system headed. What is obvious is most of football seems unhappy with the current iteration so it's worth a trial, I guess.
I genuinely don't think I've ever seen anyone cautioned for this!
I've also never sent someone off for entering the video operation room, and given that in England the video operation room is in Stockley Park, I find it unlikely that anyone ever has, but it's still in the LOTG as a red card offence.
Runner Ref
Active Member
That could happen. Or the referee gets a second look, changes his decision and is seen as being human.
Newcastle challenge the non-pen vs Utd; I think onfield ref says penalty once he sees it again.
Out of interest, would we propose that the manager gets to explain why he is challenging a decision? The ref from the Utd vs Newcastle game may watch it back and still not see the achilles contact unless it was pointed out to him.
Agree with that, and I keep coming back to the same word: subjective. Let's say a manager challenges a decision, the referee goes to the screen and decides to stick with his original decision. Cue outcry in the media as they feel the original decision was wrong, and the usual suspects such as Hackett and Halsey will have a pile on saying the standard of refereeing isn't as good as it was in their days, if they can't get it right after watching a replay, blah, blah, blah.
It would probably mean more decisions are overturned as referees will get a chance to see an incident again, incidents that they don't necessarily get to see again now due to the high bar on VAR intervention. The obvious question is how quickly does the challenge have to be made? Restarts in football are often very fast, especially these days with short passes instead of it being clumped long, so referees would need to delay any restart where there is potentially going to be an appeal. How would they even know that? Or would the laws have to change to say that decisions can be changed after play has restarted.
I'm just not sure it fixes anything, it moves the responsibility for initiating a review from VAR to club officials, but the referee still has to make the decision.
Runner Ref
Active Member
I'd imagine they would have to do some form of explanation somewhere as to why they're challenging. But whether they would want them to go into so much detail, I don't know. Saying it's for a foul is fine. But if they started specifying on the achilles etc, I don't know if that would work. From what I remember, they don't really do that with current system as they don't want to cloud referees judgement.