The Ref Stop

Education and spirit or rules

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Andyrob0880

New Member
Level 7 Referee
So ref’d my first game ever last Saturday. Under 13’s game.

Really clean game to be fair with great kids… called a few foul throws and used the opportunity to educated the kids with why at half time.

Asked myself a few questions over my decisions after the game to which could do with some feed back.

So firstly one goalie appeared to be on the edge of the box if not slightly over with hands still on the ball when taking 2 goal kicks but from my position on the half way line couldn’t say 100%. Had a break in play for an injury so had a word with the keeper to educate.

Second and a more major one.. in the first min of the game ball kicked through and their forward chases and lifts his leg to try to kick a ball around hip height.. the keeper comes out to take and grabs the ball meaning as the ball has now moved he is caught in the mid section by attackers boot. I took the decision that it was a challenge for the ball as both only had eyes for the ball. I awarded a free kick against the attacker and spoke to him explaining that he has left himself open for disciplinary action when challenging for the ball.. Now after the event I’ve thought I should of given a yellow card for recklessness maybe? Should I have carded him and if his studs were up should it of been red (couldn’t see at the time)??

The positive is he pulled out of challenging for the next one and looked straight at me and smiled so he learned his lesson..

Grateful for any feed back on this one
 
The Ref Stop
I can be pedantic (as we are referees and on this forum, two main prerequisites), like how do you take a goal kick with your hands on the ball but let's move to your main point.

Both serious foul play and reckless challenge are only applicable when challenging for the ball. So the argument "no sanction because he was challenging for the ball" doesn't stand. Otherwise we won't need the book to specify sanctions for SFP or reckless challenge.

These sort of challenges can only be assessed if you actually see it (in opposed to a description). And even when you see it, different angles can result in different opinions. But to give you an indication, from your description, I'd go at least a yellow.
 
one said:
These sort of challenges can only be assessed if you actually see it (in opposed to a description). And even when you see it, different angles can result in different opinions. But to give you an indication, from your description, I'd go at least a yellow.
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Have to remember that it is U13,
I guess it depends on the attackers intentions really, the amount of force that he challenges with and whether his studs are up or not.
 
Very little force in it and studs pointing down…. Looking back maybe a yellow would of been the best option but at this age group and the force used I thought I would be harsh
 
Andyrob0880 said:
So ref’d my first game ever last Saturday. Under 13’s game.

Really clean game to be fair with great kids… called a few foul throws and used the opportunity to educated the kids with why at half time.

Asked myself a few questions over my decisions after the game to which could do with some feed back.

So firstly one goalie appeared to be on the edge of the box if not slightly over with hands still on the ball when taking 2 goal kicks but from my position on the half way line couldn’t say 100%. Had a break in play for an injury so had a word with the keeper to educate.

Second and a more major one.. in the first min of the game ball kicked through and their forward chases and lifts his leg to try to kick a ball around hip height.. the keeper comes out to take and grabs the ball meaning as the ball has now moved he is caught in the mid section by attackers boot. I took the decision that it was a challenge for the ball as both only had eyes for the ball. I awarded a free kick against the attacker and spoke to him explaining that he has left himself open for disciplinary action when challenging for the ball.. Now after the event I’ve thought I should of given a yellow card for recklessness maybe? Should I have carded him and if his studs were up should it of been red (couldn’t see at the time)??

The positive is he pulled out of challenging for the next one and looked straight at me and smiled so he learned his lesson..

Grateful for any feed back on this one
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Anyone else confused how a level 2 referee is a new referee?
 
Andyrob0880 said:
Ok have I selected the wrong level didn’t know what I was to select?
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In England you become level 7 when you compete the course and over 16, under 16 level 8 and level 9 if completed course but not all 5 games to finish the course.

Becoming level 2 after finishing the course would be an upset.


Image from London FA:
1666873066956.png
 
Ok well I am in Wales and honestly no idea what the levels on here account to.. if any one can let me know how to change it to the level I should be then more than happy to do so but mainly on here for advice and a little help as I start this journey
 
Andyrob0880 said:
Ok well I am in Wales and honestly no idea what the levels on here account to.. if any one can let me know how to change it to the level I should be then more than happy to do so but mainly on here for advice and a little help as I start this journey
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@Ross can you help this guy with account level?
 
Kref said:
In England you become level 7 when you compete the course and over 16, under 16 level 8 and level 9 if completed course but not all 5 games to finish the course.

Becoming level 2 after finishing the course would be an upset.


Image from London FA:
View attachment 6085
Click to expand...
Any chance you can add that chart to resources? I've never seen it laid out so clearly and I remember getting started it was so confusing to try and work out who did what - would be really useful for new members to have that saved somewhere accessible.
 
Kref said:
In England you become level 7 when you compete the course and over 16, under 16 level 8 and level 9 if completed course but not all 5 games to finish the course.

Becoming level 2 after finishing the course would be an upset.


Image from London FA:
View attachment 6085
Click to expand...
Ok so based off this I would be a trainee but there is no trainee option when I edit… so would you recommend putting a level 8?

My course I have completed allows me to referee all age groups as I have done the referee leads for youth football prior to this?
 
GraemeS said:
Any chance you can add that chart to resources? I've never seen it laid out so clearly and I remember getting started it was so confusing to try and work out who did what - would be really useful for new members to have that saved somewhere accessible.
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Alright will do
 
GraemeS said:
Any chance you can add that chart to resources? I've never seen it laid out so clearly and I remember getting started it was so confusing to try and work out who did what - would be really useful for new members to have that saved somewhere accessible.
Click to expand...
I've just added it, had a similar or same version saved already
 
Kref said:
In England you become level 7 when you compete the course and over 16, under 16 level 8 and level 9 if completed course but not all 5 games to finish the course.

Becoming level 2 after finishing the course would be an upset.


Image from London FA:
View attachment 6085
Click to expand...
Mate no offense was meant by me selecting the level I wrongly assumed that it worked 1 lowest I.e referee leaders award and then full trainee level 2…

So in your opinion as I’m 42 level 7 would be my correct level
 
Andyrob0880 said:
Mate no offense was meant by me selecting the level I wrongly assumed that it worked 1 lowest I.e referee leaders award and then full trainee level 2…

So in your opinion as I’m 42 level 7 would be my correct level
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It's different in Wales but yes in England. Those over the age of 16 having completed their trainee matches will become a Level 7
 
Andyrob0880 said:
Mate no offense was meant by me selecting the level I wrongly assumed that it worked 1 lowest I.e referee leaders award and then full trainee level 2…

So in your opinion as I’m 42 level 7 would be my correct level
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So for the welsh system you wold be 4C whilst in the English system you would be level 7. Just ask one of the mods of the website to change your level
 
Anyway, this is all getting off topic. To go back to the original post:

Fly kicks - incredibly difficult to judge when you're working solo and frankly, a low priority next to the plethora of fouls that you'll need to be ready for in the drop zone. If it's significant enough to actually be making a difference to the game, you'll be able to tell from the middle. And if you can't tell from the middle, it's basically irrelevant, so your best bet is to just shut down the complaints and get on with the game. You can always say "he's throwing it forwards from in the area" and no one will be able to prove that wrong.

At higher levels, you'll have AR's who will be specifically tasked with looking out for this kind of thing. And even at that level, it's normal to try and give a warning the first time rather than just immediately whistle for a HB that no one wants. Which is exactly what you did at the next break.

Challenge on Keeper - at adult football, that's hitting all my check boxes for yellow based on the description. But at the end of the day, the purpose of a caution is to warn a player that he shouldn't carry out the action again - if the talking to had that effect, then overall you can be happy with what you did. And it's also worth pointing out that fouls at U13s will be less forceful than the same action at adult level, because the players are smaller and muscles are less developed, so it's fully possible that the action I'm imagining had a "warning" level of force behind it rather than a "yellow" level.

So yeah, no issues with any of this - good job!
 
GraemeS said:
Anyway, this is all getting off topic. To go back to the original post:

Fly kicks - incredibly difficult to judge when you're working solo and frankly, a low priority next to the plethora of fouls that you'll need to be ready for in the drop zone. If it's significant enough to actually be making a difference to the game, you'll be able to tell from the middle. And if you can't tell from the middle, it's basically irrelevant, so your best bet is to just shut down the complaints and get on with the game. You can always say "he's throwing it forwards from in the area" and no one will be able to prove that wrong.

At higher levels, you'll have AR's who will be specifically tasked with looking out for this kind of thing. And even at that level, it's normal to try and give a warning the first time rather than just immediately whistle for a HB that no one wants. Which is exactly what you did at the next break.

Challenge on Keeper - at adult football, that's hitting all my check boxes for yellow based on the description. But at the end of the day, the purpose of a caution is to warn a player that he shouldn't carry out the action again - if the talking to had that effect, then overall you can be happy with what you did. And it's also worth pointing out that fouls at U13s will be less forceful than the same action at adult level, because the players are smaller and muscles are less developed, so it's fully possible that the action I'm imagining had a "warning" level of force behind it rather than a "yellow" level.

So yeah, no issues with any of this - good job!
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Hi thanks for this really constructive for me.

Thanks for taking the time to type this up
 
Even when you are an AR and level with the edge of the penalty area it can be tricky to rule on handling on fly kicks. Just ask former EPL AR Andy Halliday who flagged for Pepe Reina being out of the area, the opposition scored, and guess what, he released the ball inside the area. Unless it is really blatant my advice at all levels would be to leave it alone, there are bigger things to worry about.
 
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