The Ref Stop

Not before time...

Donate to RefChat

Help keep RefChat running, any donation would be appreciated

The Ref Stop
Been saying it for years. Until potential punishment far outweighs the potential rewards for blatant cheating, the game will continue to be infested with it as at the moment a possible yellow card means nothing to most players.

Could go either of two ways, lengthy bans will see clubs forced to take action against their own players to discourage cheating or the more likely scenario of clubs defending their players and challenging every ban...
 
absolutely agree. got to be good for the game

couple of questions/thoughts...
Player gets cautioned for diving in the game - does he still get banned?
Will cautions get rescinded if the player is found not to have dived?
will the punishment be harsher if the dive resulted in a red card as opposed to simply a free kick outside the box?
i assume repeat offenders will be punished harsher?
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Anyone hear Big Sams put down of the idea.... since when has he been put forward as the voice of reason and decent integrity!!
Click to expand...

I can sort of see where he is coming from. It's better to deal with it at the time rather than retrospectively as the defending team will still be punished if the referee fails to spot the dive and there's no mention of the player who doesn't dive but gets booked for diving. But still, Big Sam isn't really the ideal man to speak about the integrity of the game
 
QuaverRef said:
I can sort of see where he is coming from. It's better to deal with it at the time rather than retrospectively as the defending team will still be punished if the referee fails to spot the dive and there's no mention of the player who doesn't dive but gets booked for diving. But still, Big Sam isn't really the ideal man to speak about the integrity of the game
Click to expand...
It is certainly better to deal with it at the time but the problem is, as we all know, that it can be very difficult to be sure that someone has dived and it is a big call to effectively call a player a cheat.

I think the effect of this will not be that lots of players will get caught diving retrospectively but that diving will decrease hugely because the balance of risk and reward has changed. At the moment, when a player dives to get a penalty or get a player sent off then if they are successful they might win a match, if they are unsuccessful then they might get a yellow card - for a professional player it might almost be expected that they should dive at least once. Now, because the potential punishment for getting caught and the chances of getting caught are much higher, there is less of an incentive to dive.

I also think we will initially see quite a lot of players diving and, when they remember in mid-air that they might get caught, immediately jumping up and telling the ref that there was no foul and that they just slipped...

I also expect that fewer players will wrongly be accused of diving - most players who get wrongly booked for diving are well known for being divers and so refs are, even if only subconscioulsy, expecting them to dive. If there are fewer divers and fewer dives then there will be fewer mistakes by refs.

Hopefully see a lot less of this sort of thing as well:
 
Sheffields Finest said:

Mistakes are made live too!!!
Click to expand...
Yup. But as I said, I think that there will be fewer of these.

Forestieri has a (well-deserved) reputation as a diver, a bit like Wilf Zaha and Ashley Young, so when he goes down refs are understandably slightly more ready to believe that he has dived, particularly as they or their colleagues have been conned before.

If the overall level of simulation reduces then so will the level of incorrect decisions as refs won't be expecting it quite so much and will be more inclined to take challenges at face value.

On another note, I hope that we will see more fouls given for "attempts to trip" when a player tries to stay on his feet but is disadvantaged by doing so.
 
Have you noticed the careful wording, it's not all dives! Hopefully it's a stepping stone to totally outlaw this disgrace of a tactic! We can add the blatant sneaky shirt pulling next! Stamp that out too.
 
McTavish said:
Forestieri has a (well-deserved) reputation as a diver, a bit like Wilf Zaha and Ashley Young, so when he goes down refs are understandably slightly more ready to believe that he has dived, particularly as they or their colleagues have been conned before.
Click to expand...
True, but some of the examples on that video are such clear fouls that I can't believe he got booked. It indicates to me that the referees were not judging the incidents on their merits but were going into the games with a preconceived mindset which was clouding their judgement.
 
When will there be, as the text puts it, "clear and overwhelming evidence" though... You really don't see many blatant (as in: no contact at all) dives anymore, players know tv is watching. If they know the FA will now be watching too, you'd think players will just get even "better" at simulation (making sure there's some contact, so that there's at least some doubt).

Anyone has data on how many times players in Scotland have been punished for simulation since the introduction of those bans in 2011?

Also: as it'll only be used for penalties/red cards, this system should only be in place until VAR is implemented. Any timing on that? (edit: actually, could still be used for second yellow card, since VAR - absurdly - wouldn't be used for that and retrospective bans would).

Finally: will there be retrospective bans for referees too when they get it wrong (player fouled, no penalty, player booked for simulation)? Couldn't resist, sorry.
 
Last edited:
J79 said:
Finally: will there be retrospective bans for referees too when they get it wrong (player fouled, no penalty, player booked for simulation)? Couldn't resist, sorry.
Click to expand...
Yes, there will be as soon as players are punished for making mistakes...keeper fumbles a cross - yellow card; defender slices a clearance - yellow card; forward misses and open goal - red card; own goal - three match ban.
 
Peter Grove said:
True, but some of the examples on that video are such clear fouls that I can't believe he got booked. It indicates to me that the referees were not judging the incidents on their merits but were going into the games with a preconceived mindset which was clouding their judgement.
Click to expand...
Yes, that was largely my point - less diving=fewer preconcieved ideas about players and so fewer incorrect calls.
 
We used to do this in the australian A-League. But a little different - in that it wouldn't matter if the referee was convinced by the dive, missed it, or even cautioned for it - if it's clear in video, it's a suspension.
This is the ONLY way to deal with cheats - suspend the *****s. A yellow card is hopelessly insufficient (but necessary; a red card just means referees would never issue it because there's always the possible to be wrong with these).
For some reason we've (unofficially) stopped doing this on video review and diving has increased.
Also, there was a rule that ANY contact means they can't rule on a missed dive. Nonsense rule - a player dropping like a stone from tiny contact is still a dive, and you can't put your disciplinary processes in a box like this.
Personally, I think suspension doesn't go far enough. IMO if the team benefits from the dive - ie it leads to a match changing decision (goal or red card to opposing team) and your team wins or draws, then the competition points should be docked.
Only problem with post-match review, at least in Australia, is that our judiciary panel has about as much integrity as FIFA. Hopelessly inconsistent and a demonstrated behaviour of treating certain teams differently. But that's an issue in place with all suspensions, not just diving - but there were way too many dives that would get ignored depending on which team they were from.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top