Quick FK
- Thread starter Irish Tim
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CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Forgive Tim, for he knoweth not of the caneth of wormseth he has openedeth.
Here you find 2 camps. 1 group who prioritise 'an easy job' over fairness or the laws (or using the 'match control' excuse)), and one group who recognise that doing the correct sometimes means you're going to cop a bit of flak.
Teams have a right to a quick free kick. Let me be extremely clear on that.
The only time they lose that right is when the referee HAS to intervene - card, injury, substitution, that sort of thing.
This does not change anywhere on the field. If I'm wrong, I'll buy a pint for anybody who can show me the page number in the laws that states so.
Around the PA kicks are typically ceremonial - but that's because 99% of the time, the attacking team is happy for it to be ceremonial. The problem there is that it sort of becomes conventional, so the defending team, despite knwing full well they can take a QFK, have a sulk if that happens. So a lot of referees, unfortunately, pander to that.
How do you approach knowing when to do which? Read the situation.
If you're physically intervening, walking defenders back, then you've made it ceremonial. If you're some distance away and you verbally manage some distance, then I'd argue that you haven't made it ceremonial....but again, get a feel for it. If you need to be giving step by step instructions, then just intervene. But a 'back away blue! 10 yards!' from some distance isn't a problem.
If you're next to the point of the foul anyway and the attackers are there, then by all means, ask which they want. If they want it quick, move into position.
If you're some distance away and you have to run up, then you can sort of judge what they want. If the attackers are just milling around the ball with no indication of wanting to take it quickly, then you can ask, but I think you could be justified in making an assumption there. I mean, by the time you've gotten there, the ball has been on its spot for some 3-5 seconds, so if they don't look like they're even considering a quick kick by then....but you could ask. If the ball has to be fetched from some distance, then I think it's ceremonial by assumption.
So when it's ceremonial, raise your whistle, point to it, tell them.
Aside from that, if they want to take it quick, it's their right. And like anywhere else on the field, if they kick it into an opponent who hasn't had the chance to retreat, that's tough luck. If the opponent runs up and it's kicked into him, that's a card. At a ceremonial kick, defenders will often come up and stand on the ball, again, just from that mutual expectation that it's usually ceremonial. Usually it's not worth making an issue out of this, unless it looks like the attackers wanted it quickly.
Sometimes you get the scenario where the keeper is out of goal, either because he's the one who's committed the foul or because he wants to have a whinge about it. If the attackers want to take it quickly then that's his problem! Although if he's having a whinge and you've started having a conversation with him about it or given him a warning as opposed to just a 'you tripped him, let's get on with it', then again, you've already intervened in play. If actions you have chosen to take are why a defender is out of position, then it becomes ceremonial.
Here you find 2 camps. 1 group who prioritise 'an easy job' over fairness or the laws (or using the 'match control' excuse)), and one group who recognise that doing the correct sometimes means you're going to cop a bit of flak.
Teams have a right to a quick free kick. Let me be extremely clear on that.
The only time they lose that right is when the referee HAS to intervene - card, injury, substitution, that sort of thing.
This does not change anywhere on the field. If I'm wrong, I'll buy a pint for anybody who can show me the page number in the laws that states so.
Around the PA kicks are typically ceremonial - but that's because 99% of the time, the attacking team is happy for it to be ceremonial. The problem there is that it sort of becomes conventional, so the defending team, despite knwing full well they can take a QFK, have a sulk if that happens. So a lot of referees, unfortunately, pander to that.
How do you approach knowing when to do which? Read the situation.
If you're physically intervening, walking defenders back, then you've made it ceremonial. If you're some distance away and you verbally manage some distance, then I'd argue that you haven't made it ceremonial....but again, get a feel for it. If you need to be giving step by step instructions, then just intervene. But a 'back away blue! 10 yards!' from some distance isn't a problem.
If you're next to the point of the foul anyway and the attackers are there, then by all means, ask which they want. If they want it quick, move into position.
If you're some distance away and you have to run up, then you can sort of judge what they want. If the attackers are just milling around the ball with no indication of wanting to take it quickly, then you can ask, but I think you could be justified in making an assumption there. I mean, by the time you've gotten there, the ball has been on its spot for some 3-5 seconds, so if they don't look like they're even considering a quick kick by then....but you could ask. If the ball has to be fetched from some distance, then I think it's ceremonial by assumption.
So when it's ceremonial, raise your whistle, point to it, tell them.
Aside from that, if they want to take it quick, it's their right. And like anywhere else on the field, if they kick it into an opponent who hasn't had the chance to retreat, that's tough luck. If the opponent runs up and it's kicked into him, that's a card. At a ceremonial kick, defenders will often come up and stand on the ball, again, just from that mutual expectation that it's usually ceremonial. Usually it's not worth making an issue out of this, unless it looks like the attackers wanted it quickly.
Sometimes you get the scenario where the keeper is out of goal, either because he's the one who's committed the foul or because he wants to have a whinge about it. If the attackers want to take it quickly then that's his problem! Although if he's having a whinge and you've started having a conversation with him about it or given him a warning as opposed to just a 'you tripped him, let's get on with it', then again, you've already intervened in play. If actions you have chosen to take are why a defender is out of position, then it becomes ceremonial.
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richard ramjane
RefChat Addict
i like quick free kicks, i wish players would do it more often
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
Well @CapnBloodbeard its taken a couple of years, but I agree with everything you've just said 
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
I knew you'd see the light 
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
As do I! Gold Star, A Plus, 10/10 answerWell @CapnBloodbeard its taken a couple of years, but I agree with everything you've just said
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
Another vote for the good Capn's sentiments. I only wish more referees would use the approach he advocates.
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
I'm also with CapnBloodbeard.
Irish Tim
New Member
Excellent explanation Capn very much appreciated. It's finals month and a few comrades were discussing and I threw my tuppence worth in but secretly thought f..... This I'm getting on ref chat they'll give me a good answer to clear up any of my doubts. I didn't want to be observed and be questioned about a decision and maybe end up losing control of the in game management because a situation arises from a QFK.
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
Now I agree with Capn BB. The difficulty that is there is "norm" which is the expected ceremonial FK. I have allowed penalty of QFKs some resulting in goals and it always ends up with mega hassle which is not good in a semi final / final even if the ref is 100% correct. I had a GK run 40 yards after a goal to pick up a caution for dissent after I allowed a QFK in the manner outline by CapnBB. It is just why most refs go the ceremonial route in front of goal even when they know it is correct in law once the ball is placed on the spot and all is in order.
Yeah, I'm pretty much with the captain too. Although I'd extend his definition of when the referee has to interfere to include any instructions to the wall. If a defender is standing over the ball specifically to stop a QFK, it seems harsh to instruct him to move away and then let the free kick be taken as soon as they start stepping back!
So yeah, first thing I'll do if I have to get involved to sort a wall's position is make sure both the takers and the wall know it's "on the whistle". That usually means the defenders are much happier to walk back as well, so it's helpful for general match control too. However if I'm still approaching (and ideally but not always, if the attackers ask), I'll definitely let it go quick, anywhere on the pitch. As Richard suggests, they're much easier to manage and help the game "feel" like it's going well, it the same way it's easier to apply advantage when the mood is good.
So yeah, first thing I'll do if I have to get involved to sort a wall's position is make sure both the takers and the wall know it's "on the whistle". That usually means the defenders are much happier to walk back as well, so it's helpful for general match control too. However if I'm still approaching (and ideally but not always, if the attackers ask), I'll definitely let it go quick, anywhere on the pitch. As Richard suggests, they're much easier to manage and help the game "feel" like it's going well, it the same way it's easier to apply advantage when the mood is good.
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
what on earth is going on in here???
I think we're just arguing different shades of grey here really. Usually if the defender is standing in front of the ball the attackers are milling around anyway so no issue. I was more thinking the case where it looks like they may consider taking it quick and you can see the defender is approaching or is hoping he can hold up a potential QFK. I don't think any comment means you're interfering (others disagree), but there's certainly a point where if you keep talking to them then you've effectively inserted yourself into the situation. If you need to say it more than once...maybe twice.....then just hold play up and get over there.
It's a shame that players are encouraged to stand over the ball anywhere on the park....it almost puts the power of a caution in the opponent's hands to just kick the ball into them....
That's my point though - and a blanket denial of a QFK simply reinforces that notion........I'm sure you know what 3 word phrase becomes applicable when reinforcing a misconception ;-)
I think we're just arguing different shades of grey here really. Usually if the defender is standing in front of the ball the attackers are milling around anyway so no issue. I was more thinking the case where it looks like they may consider taking it quick and you can see the defender is approaching or is hoping he can hold up a potential QFK. I don't think any comment means you're interfering (others disagree), but there's certainly a point where if you keep talking to them then you've effectively inserted yourself into the situation. If you need to say it more than once...maybe twice.....then just hold play up and get over there.
It's a shame that players are encouraged to stand over the ball anywhere on the park....it almost puts the power of a caution in the opponent's hands to just kick the ball into them....
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Based on......what?
And I swear to god, if you say 'match control' I'm going to fly over there, track you down and shove vegemite into your whistle.
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
My answer to all that is - so what?
why does the defensive team have the right to fully prepare for a kick?
And why does the nature of the match change all of that?
YorkshireReferee
Well-Known Member
I'll allow a quick free kick if they take it quick. What I won't allow is a player putting the ball in place, taking his time, players are starting to organise the wall, the goalkeeper is at his post organising the wall and then he says "Can I have it quick?" No, it's ceremonial at that point.