A&H

Goalie backpass - "Can I pick it up ref or is it a backpass?"

CapnBloodbeard said:
Well maybe I overemphasised, but a player's impression of a referee wouldn't be a positive one in that scenario. :p
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In fairness I've not had it happen to me, and seems quite rare a keeper has the ball at his feet long enough to ask a question and get an answer.
 
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Yacinho said:
Yes no doubts about that, but when you look at the FIFA LOTG on the internet in english then in french, that "to him" precision don't appear in the second one
Seems very important though as it changes the understanding of the whole sentence..
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French: touche le ballon des mains sur une passe bottée délibérément par un coéquipier
English: touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked to him by a team-mate

Does "passe" not suggest that the ball running loose from a tackle should not be penalised? Or is the word "passe" not exactly analogous to "pass" in English?
 
'deliberately kicked to him' is pretty much the definition of a kicked pass.......

Echoing others, unlike our friends in the USA 'to' is as important as 'deliberate kicked'
 
HI All,
First a good discussion going on, it has been a good read. In my opinion if it helps the game management then the more communication you give the better understanding and relationship players will have with you. At open age adult games, players don't really have an understanding of the LOTG, so any help/advice I can give hopefully will help them going forward. Even though I am still learning the rules myself.

I do have an interesting back pass situation i would like to get people's thoughts on. Long throw, from right hand side of pitch, comes into the 6 yard box. it has missed a few defenders and attackers. Last defender, standing a couple of yards in front of the goalkeeper, controls the ball dead. He then shields the ball and in my opinion leaves the ball deliberately for the goalkeeper to pick up, which he does. I class this as a back pass and so gave an IDFK.

In your opinion would you class this a deliberate back pass?

Thanks everyone
Dave
 
@David Kelly - in your opinion is all that counts here ... the GK hasn't taken advantage of an 'accidental' situation (e.g. poor touch) - the defender has deliberately stopped the ball for the GK to collect (in your opinion) with his foot (i.e. pass) ... IDFK is correct :)
 
But he hasnt actually passed the ball in a backward motion to the keeper so no back pass,possibly IDFK unsporting behaviour though so same outcome.....
 
mikedn said:
But he hasnt actually passed the ball in a backward motion to the keeper so no back pass,possibly IDFK unsporting behaviour though so same outcome.....
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Ball doesn't need to go backwards, it just needs to be deliberately kicked to the keeper. I would say that in this instance the player has deliberately used his foot (so kicked) to get the ball to his keeper and so IDFK all day long.

I don't think you could use an USB get out for this as if you don't consider this against the LOTG insofar as kicking the ball to the keeper is concerned, what is unsporting about it?
 
'Backward motion'......would some of you guys actually recognise a 'back pass' if it was played forwards to the keeper....I'm beginning to have my doubts
 
David Kelly said:
HI All,
First a good discussion going on, it has been a good read. In my opinion if it helps the game management then the more communication you give the better understanding and relationship players will have with you. At open age adult games, players don't really have an understanding of the LOTG, so any help/advice I can give hopefully will help them going forward. Even though I am still learning the rules myself.

I do have an interesting back pass situation i would like to get people's thoughts on. Long throw, from right hand side of pitch, comes into the 6 yard box. it has missed a few defenders and attackers. Last defender, standing a couple of yards in front of the goalkeeper, controls the ball dead. He then shields the ball and in my opinion leaves the ball deliberately for the goalkeeper to pick up, which he does. I class this as a back pass and so gave an IDFK.

In your opinion would you class this a deliberate back pass?

Thanks everyone
Dave
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IDFK to the attacking team. Caution for anybody daring to challenge the decision AFTER I had explained it to the captain ... if he asks me in the correct manner.
 
haywain said:
'Backward motion'......would some of you guys actually recognise a 'back pass' if it was played forwards to the keeper....I'm beginning to have my doubts
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I would like to think I'd recognise it. The term "passback" is just a short-hand, the law still applies regardless of direction. Balls passed sideways from the corner, or from a ball stopped and trapped dead on the line, that is deliberately tapped forward to the goalkeeper who charged. Same event, same law, same outcome.

Just as a player can get a pass when they are in front of the 2TLD or inside their half, and still be flagged offside. It's where they were when the ball was played, not where they are when the ball is received.
 
Thanks everyone for their feedback, I appreciate it. The defender in question, jokingly said to me "ref, even if I meant to do that I couldn't." So the act of controlling the ball dead was a fluke to him. For me he controlled the ball very well, he could have put his boot through the ball to clear it but he then deliberately left the ball for the goalkeeper to collect. which is what I gave the IDFK for.

I guess this situation is slightly going of topic from the original post, about communication with the players but it's an interesting situation.
 
@Yacinho the LOTG state that where there is discrepencies in the translations, the English version will be taken as correct.

Hence I agree with Brian that the wording in English determines that a tackle can't be deemed as a "back pass"
 
Sorry Herts but I'm not gonna go against what FFF gives to all french refs because of UK ref's interpretation of an ambiguous phrasing :D

60048220150225011819HDR.jpg


Translation of section 19.09 :
A defender correctly tackles a striker and the ball goes to the GK who takes it with his hands. Decision.
Indirect free-kick where the GK took the ball with his hands (under particular circumstances of Law 13)

That's the words I'm gonna live by
 
Well if that's what you've been told to do that's what you've got to do. In a tackle I would argue he may be able to control direction, may not. You'd have to be certain it was a pass (which can certainly happen) to penalise him.

Oh yeah, and trapping a ball then leaving it would count as a backpass, IMO. But if the trap never really controlled it - or it's a crowded PA and the keeper just jumps on it straight away then I wouldn't penalise that.
 
Very strange @Yacinho

Never known that rule to exist anywhere. In the English LOTG (the real one :D) it has no mention of this.

Crack on with it then if that's what the FFF say. But if you ever make the Fifa list, for gods sake stick to the English wording :p
 
In my last game the defender tackled the attacker just inside the box and the ball spun off and the keeper picked it up,IMO not back pass no IDFK .... and no appeals were made for it.. but my decision was made even if they did appeal..

Having just read a copy of the laws of the game (page 37) concerning the keeper.......
" touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked to him by a team-mate "
I have underlined the word deliberatley which should clarify a back pass......
 
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Great tackle by Zabeleta last night, Barcelona want a penalty ball goes straight to Hart who picks it up. Referee plays on. No one expects a pass back.

Not convinced by the French interpretation (iPhone predictive!) :-p
 
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@mikedn the point being made, I believe, is a tackle is deliberately kicking the ball. Ie he means to touch the ball with his foot. It's just people are interpreting it differently.​
 
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