The Ref Stop

Everton v Manchester City

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bloovee

RefChat Addict

Can't give the minutes / seconds on the video but between first goal and half time there's a SFP call for a Keane foul on Doku. YC from Oliver and City commentator says "The reason it's not going to be a red card is that VAR will not overrule Michael Oliver's call...."

But what was going on for the Everton equaliser? AR sees attacker Barry in offside position and AR stops, not keeping up with play; ball was played nearer defender Guehi so no question of Barry interfering; Guehi then tries passing ball to GK but gives it to Barry (in offside position) but it's obvious ball was deliberately played not deflected. Then flag goes up...
 
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The goal is a weird one for me.

Personally id like to see this as offside as he has gained an advantage being there with the initial intended pass clearly for Barry.
However, law says otherwise.
Barry never made an obvious move for the ball and Guehi, unchallenged at this point, turns and passes to him. This makes it a deliberate pass by Guehi and a completely new phase of play.
Remember, its not an offence to be in an offside position. Only if you become involved in the offside phase of play.


bloovee said:

Can't give the minutes / seconds on the video but between first goal and half time there's a SFP call for a Keane foul on Doku. YC from Oliver and City commentator says "The reason it's not going to be a red card is that VAR will not overrule Michael Oliver's call...."

But what was going on for the Everton equaliser? AR sees attacker Barry in offside position and AR stops, not keeping up with play; ball was played nearer defender Guehi so no question of Barry interfering; Guehi then tries passing ball to GK but gives it to Barry (in offside position) but it's obvious ball was deliberately played not deflected. Then flag goes up...
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I don't think that's SFP.
Yeah agree that the goal is correct to stand. Presumably a little bit of a misunderstanding between Burt and Oliver.
 
According to the recent FA Learning Module completed by us level 3/4 refs, the foul on Doku is Serious Foul Play because of the speed and intensity. I can't be arsed getting into whether VAR should've intervened... that routinely just adds layers to the onion. But it's what we see on TV that really sets expectation levels, so we're screwed because the Pro game contradicts the Learning Modules

I find it staggering that an elite AR is flagging for offside for that opening Everton goal. That's extremely poor
 
strange to see such an obvious mistake by such experienced officials - not quite paying attention to what guehi was doing/going to do?

thought red live but it's definitely more 'orange' - he doesn't get him studs first though there is knee/leg contact
 
ladbroke8745 said:
The goal is a weird one for me.

Personally id like to see this as offside as he has gained an advantage being there with the initial intended pass clearly for Barry.
However, law says otherwise.
Barry never made an obvious move for the ball and Guehi, unchallenged at this point, turns and passes to him. This makes it a deliberate pass by Guehi and a completely new phase of play.
Remember, its not an offence to be in an offside position. Only if you become involved in the offside phase of play.
Click to expand...
The City fan site post match thread would be a lot shorter if people knew the offside law, or remembered when any touch by a defender cancelled any offside.
 
As you may know, I’m in the U.S. My son happens to be in England right now and was watching the game at a pub. He texted me about this play. He was surprised at how little the folks in the pub understood why this could not be OS on a pass from the defender. Yet when we have games here, everyone assumes the coach or parent with a British accent must know more than the ref!
 
socal lurker said:
As you may know, I’m in the U.S. My son happens to be in England right now and was watching the game at a pub. He texted me about this play. He was surprised at how little the folks in the pub understood why this could not be OS on a pass from the defender. Yet when we have games here, everyone assumes the coach or parent with a British accent must know more than the ref!
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When you read socials (and sometimes on here) youd think everyone knows more than Collina!
 
Contact was low and that is what saved him, feels very much like a referee's call incident. If not given VAR stay out, if the referee gives it VAR still stay out.

The offside is baffling, probably the best and most consistent AR in the country for a long time. Did he definitely raise the flag, as I don't think the footage showed it, just the conversation he had with Oliver after?
 
Yep the tackle I think is definately the orange card variety where the VAR can support a yellow/red card either way. Any higher with the contact then it has to be a certain red. No surprise we hear a Man City commentator coming out with rubbish that has never been proven that a referee is scared to overrule a top referee like Michael Oliver, it's just a lazy accusation.
 
Paul_10 said:
Yep the tackle I think is definately the orange card variety where the VAR can support a yellow/red card either way. Any higher with the contact then it has to be a certain red. No surprise we hear a Man City commentator coming out with rubbish that has never been proven that a referee is scared to overrule a top referee like Michael Oliver, it's just a lazy accusation.
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Especially as it was shortly after a SG2 referee acting as VAR had told Anthony Taylor he had got a decision wrong and to go and review it.
 
ARF said:
"Any" touch by a defender doesn't automatically mean an attacker in an offside position can't then commit an offside offence.
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Pretty sure that's referring to the time in the past when that was true. Up till 1979, any touch by a defender meant a player in an offside position was "played on" by that touch and not penalised for offside.

The wording of the law in the years up to that point stated:

A player is off-side if he is nearer his opponents' goal-line than the ball at the moment the ball is played unless:
[...]
(c) The ball last touched an opponent ...
Click to expand...
 
Peter Grove said:
Pretty sure that's referring to the time in the past when that was true. Up till 1979, any touch by a defender meant a player in an offside position was "played on" by that touch and not penalised for offside.

The wording of the law in the years up to that point stated:
Click to expand...
My recollection of the time, though, was also that OS was often called as soon as the pass was made towards the OSP player, so a deflection close to the attacker might not matter as play had already stopped. (This was in the days when it was an offense for an OSP player to seek to gain an advantage.” Do others remember it that way? (I was young then.)
 
socal lurker said:
My recollection of the time, though, was also that OS was often called as soon as the pass was made towards the OSP player, so a deflection close to the attacker might not matter as play had already stopped. (This was in the days when it was an offense for an OSP player to seek to gain an advantage.” Do others remember it that way? (I was young then.)
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I was younger then than I am now, and can confirm your memory is sound👍😅
 
bloovee said:

And it's daft that they retained the "gaining an advantage" phrase at all as it just invites ignorant comments like "but Barry still gained an advantage". It should read:

"This includes by playing the ball, or interfering with an opponent, when the ball has....."
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"Gaining an advantage" related solely to rebounds from the goal frame initially.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
"Gaining an advantage" related solely to rebounds from the goal frame initially.
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No, it was originally simply seeking to gain an advantage by being in an offside position. That was typically when a player was IOP behind the defence and an onside teammate got the pass and then passed to the player who had been IOP. Before "different phases of play" was invented.
 
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