Open Age Offside, or Goal?

[cdsman]

Incident in my match yesterday.
Ball played through by Team A. Player in offside position makes no attempt to move towards the ball, which bounces through to the GK.
GK makes a complete hash of it and effectively juggles it away from his own reach. Player who was in offside position reacts to this and puts the ball in the net.

I gave offside stating that the GK hadn't made a deliberate play, attacker suggested this was second phase and he was therefore onside. Not sure I agree with second phase as surely that has to be another pass by his own team? However, did the GK deliberately play the ball thus playing the attacker onside?

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Doesn't sound like a deliberate ("controlled") play by the goalkeeper.
However, it sounds like a save, so "gaining an advantage, offside offence" applies.
Next time an attacker calls "second phase", say you're happy to discuss after the game if they show you "second phase" in the LOTG.

 

[bester]

Deliberate play for me, just poor goalkeeping.

Would note that the goalkeeper could pick the ball up without a second touch infringement as he never held the ball.

If it's a deliberate save as well then obviously an offside offence.

"If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of
the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the
player ‘deliberately played’ the ball.
The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a
player was in control of the ball and, as a result, can be considered to have
‘deliberately played’ the ball:
• The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
• The ball was not moving quickly
• The direction of the ball was not unexpected
• The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case"

 

[one]

GK makes a complete hash of it and effectively juggles it away from his own reach

It really depends on what and where happened in this description. Not enough info for me to make a decision on.

 

[ARF]

If it's a deliberate save as well then obviously no offside offence.

If the ball would have gone in without the keeper's intervention then it would be a save, and therefore offside. If it wasn't going in, then it's down to whether you deemed the goalkeeper to have deliberately played the ball, as per the criteria in the LotG.

IMO, if it was an easy catch that the keeper simply flubbed without being under any pressure from the attacker then I would deem it a deliberate play. If it was an awkward one - having to jump for it, the pitch or weather conditions making it difficult to anticipate the bounce of the ball, attacker closing in to pressure him etc. - then I'd say not a deliberate play, and therefore offside.

 

[socal lurker]

There is one additional element not set out in the OP. How close was he to the GK, how close was the ball to the GK, and how quickly did the OSP player get the ball? This could be interfering with an opponent by challenging for the ball immediately after it was received by the GK. The details all matter for each possible way the attacker could be OS. From the OP, I think he was probably OS, but kind have to be there.

 

[bester]

@ARF Rather important typo there . Edited

 

[one]

Another detail that maters is that if the keeper made a save, and then after the save deliberately played the ball, then the save is no longer a consideration provided the challenge happened after the save was completed and the keeper deliberately played the ball a second time. I know next phase is not in the laws but the concept is still important.

 

[cdsman]

Thanks for your replies. I realise YHTBT, and none of you were, but I think the replies have the same level of doubt / questioning that I had at the time.
It was 'sort of' a save. If he hadn't stopped the ball at all, it would have gone into the goal.
He didn't save it and then play the ball a second time - he just sort of juggled it, and then dropped it...
The ball did come slowly from quite a distance, so the GK did have plenty of time to catch / control / pick up the ball - he just didn't.

I'm 80% happy with my decision of offside...

ITOOTR!

 

[socal lurker]

Thanks for your replies. I realise YHTBT, and none of you were, but I think the replies have the same level of doubt / questioning that I had at the time.
It was 'sort of' a save. If he hadn't stopped the ball at all, it would have gone into the goal.
He didn't save it and then play the ball a second time - he just sort of juggled it, and then dropped it...
The ball did come slowly from quite a distance, so the GK did have plenty of time to catch / control / pick up the ball - he just didn't.

I'm 80% happy with my decision of offside...

ITOOTR!

That is by definition a save. Nothing “sort of” about it.

 

[bester]

@cdsman It may not have gone down as a safe on the OPTA stats but that doesn't mean it's not a save by the very loose LOTG definition.

“Save
An action by a player to stop or attempt to stop the ball when it is going into
or very close to the goal using any part of the body except the hands/arms
(unless a goalkeeper within their own penalty area)"

@one I had the same thoughts