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Penalty given, second yellow card not given and I do not understand why

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FeedTheGoat

New Member
Level 7 Referee
Hi. Game in FA Youth Cup second preliminary round on 2025-09-30.

Player-from-team-A on a yellow card. Quick throw puts player-from-team-B in behind player-from-team-A.

Player-from-team-A brings down player-from-team-B in the - team-A's - penalty area.

Player-from-team-A was trying to playing the ball.

Referee gave a penalty.

Referee did not produce a second yellow card for player-from-team-A. It was a stonewall yellow card. I cannot see anything in the rules that would stop a referee in that situation from producing a second yellow card.

What am I not seeing?

Player-from-team-A is not the goalkeeper.
 
The Ref Stop
FeedTheGoat said:
Hi. Game in FA Youth Cup second preliminary round on 2025-09-30.

Player-from-team-A on a yellow card. Quick throw puts player-from-team-B in behind player-from-team-A.

Player-from-team-A brings down player-from-team-B in the - team-A's - penalty area.

Player-from-team-A was trying to playing the ball.

Referee gave a penalty.

Referee did not produce a second yellow card for player-from-team-A. It was a stonewall yellow card. I cannot see anything in the rules that would stop a referee in that situation from producing a second yellow card.

What am I not seeing?

Player-from-team-A is not the goalkeeper.
Click to expand...
Was it DOSGO or reckless? If not then no need for a yellow I don't think? SPA would be downgraded iirc?
 
When you say stonewall I assume you mean DOGSO or a reckless challenge?

If in the opinion of the referee it was careless then a second yellow wouldn't be necessary. Also, interested to hear about player reaction on this, not that we should always go off this, but interesting to see if match temperature had risen as a result of not awarding a second yellow.
 
FeedTheGoat said:
I cannot see anything in the rules that would stop a referee in that situation from producing a second yellow card.
Click to expand...
That's not really a good reason for giving a yellow.

Can you see anything in the laws obliging the referee to produce a second yellow?
 
FeedTheGoat said:
Hi. Game in FA Youth Cup second preliminary round on 2025-09-30.

Player-from-team-A on a yellow card. Quick throw puts player-from-team-B in behind player-from-team-A.

Player-from-team-A brings down player-from-team-B in the - team-A's - penalty area.

Player-from-team-A was trying to playing the ball.

Referee gave a penalty.

Referee did not produce a second yellow card for player-from-team-A. It was a stonewall yellow card. I cannot see anything in the rules that would stop a referee in that situation from producing a second yellow card.

What am I not seeing?

Player-from-team-A is not the goalkeeper.
Click to expand...

Hi!

Are you a referee? Or a player trying to understand what in law could justify what happened?

It doesn't matter either way, this forum isn't exclusively for referees! Just so I know what position you're coming from.

Were there any other defenders around? You mention that the player from team A was trying to play the ball. Unless the challenge is reckless in itself (which it doesn't sound it from your description) then we have 3 options.

If the foul denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity (defined by law to consider whether there are other defenders present, distance from goal, direction of play and whether the player had control) then this would be a downgraded from a red card to a caution because of the award of the penalty AND the genuine attempt to play the ball.

If the foul stopped a promising attack then this would be downgraded from a caution to no card because of the award of the penalty AND the genuine attempt to play the ball.

If it did neither, then no card.

So basically, if the player was (for want of a better phrase) through on goal with a very clear chance to score and no other defenders to try and beat, then the defender probably should have received a second caution.

If not, it was just a good chance for a cross to go in or for the player to run in to space in the area and maybe get a shot of sorts away, then the ref was correct not to caution.
 
one said:
Without further info the OP sounds like extractions from a myth that a foul resulting in a pen has to be at least a yellow. Which obously not necessarily the case.
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Thank you. This could be the answer I was after. The challenge was careless. If careless, yellow card not warranted. I get that. So the only reason player-from-team-A would receive a card was if DOGSO; have I got that correct?
 
I am also a touch confused because the initial post implies that the game is an FA Youth Cup game today and while there are FA Youth Cup games today, none of them have kicked off yet 😝
 
RefDL95 said:
When you say stonewall I assume you mean DOGSO or a reckless challenge?

If in the opinion of the referee it was careless then a second yellow wouldn't be necessary. Also, interested to hear about player reaction on this, not that we should always go off this, but interesting to see if match temperature had risen as a result of not awarding a second yellow.
Click to expand...
Thank you. This is similar to another reply, which I think is the answer I was after. If the referee saw the challenge as careless and not DOGSO and not reckless - which I can see being the case as it was careless and not DOGSO and not reckless, imo - then I get why he did not produce a second yellow card. Re reaction, players from team-B appealed for a second yellow. Temps did not raise so I assume the referee said something to explain his decision (and I did not get a chance to ask him or the players).
 
one said:
That's not really a good reason for giving a yellow.

Can you see anything in the laws obliging the referee to produce a second yellow?
Click to expand...
As it happens, I thought it was DOGSO even if it was an accident. I can only presume the referee did not think it was DOGSO.

Not that this is the answer I was after. I think the answer is: referee saw the challenge as careless and not DOGSO and not reckless, so no yellow card.
 
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RefereeX said:
Hi!

Are you a referee? Or a player trying to understand what in law could justify what happened?

It doesn't matter either way, this forum isn't exclusively for referees! Just so I know what position you're coming from.

Were there any other defenders around? You mention that the player from team A was trying to play the ball. Unless the challenge is reckless in itself (which it doesn't sound it from your description) then we have 3 options.

If the foul denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity (defined by law to consider whether there are other defenders present, distance from goal, direction of play and whether the player had control) then this would be a downgraded from a red card to a caution because of the award of the penalty AND the genuine attempt to play the ball.

If the foul stopped a promising attack then this would be downgraded from a caution to no card because of the award of the penalty AND the genuine attempt to play the ball.

If it did neither, then no card.

So basically, if the player was (for want of a better phrase) through on goal with a very clear chance to score and no other defenders to try and beat, then the defender probably should have received a second caution.

If not, it was just a good chance for a cross to go in or for the player to run in to space in the area and maybe get a shot of sorts away, then the ref was correct not to caution.
Click to expand...
Trying to be a better referee. Grass roots, youth.

No defenders around.

Challenge was careless, IMO.

I think this ...

"So basically, if the player was (for want of a better phrase) through on goal with a very clear chance to score and no other defenders to try and beat, then the defender probably should have received a second caution."

... sums up the event.
 
FeedTheGoat said:
Trying to be a better referee. Grass roots, youth.

No defenders around.

Challenge was careless, IMO.

I think this ...

"So basically, if the player was (for want of a better phrase) through on goal with a very clear chance to score and no other defenders to try and beat, then the defender probably should have received a second caution."

... sums up the event.
Click to expand...
So, to be clear, your opinion is that it was a DOGSO but only merits a caution as there was an attempt to play the ball?
 
FeedTheGoat said:
My understanding here ... and please do correct me if I am wrong ... is that DOGSO + penalty = caution. Am I wrong?
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Caution for DOGSO if the challenge is an attempt to play the ball, dismissal for DOGSO if not an attempt to play the ball.
Suggest you read through Law 12 (on the IFAB or FA websites) to ensure that you have a full understanding.
Well done for asking.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
Caution for DOGSO if the challenge is an attempt to play the ball, dismissal for DOGSO if not an attempt to play the ball.
Suggest you read through Law 12 (on the IFAB or FA websites) to ensure that you have a full understanding.
Well done for asking.
Click to expand...
This is why I thought it was a second yellow. Referee must have thought it was not DOGSO.
 
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