The Ref Stop

Dissent threshold

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pdhmobile

New Member
Hi all,

I done a tournament on Sunday and thinking about it afterwards, I let slip some dissent go that I should have clamped down on.

First up was a tricky little player for one of the teams who, when he lost the ball claimed for a foul, every time and on done occasions went on a bit too long about certain cases. When I did award a free kick he was saying things like, about time, it's only the 3rd one this game etc. low level stuff really.

Second up was the mouthy coach on the sidelines, again shouting for a free kick every time one of his players went down, shouting what do we have to do to get a free kick, in the back ref, hand ball ref, and asking why free kicks where giving.

I could have took a harder stance on them both but I had a mind set of it was a summer tournament and everyone was out for a bit of sun and good football.

It got me thinking though that in the coming season, I'm going to lower my dissent threshold right down and take no back chat/questioning from anyone.

Thoughts?
 
The Ref Stop
Discussed many times on here, all referees have different tolerance levels, but if it's obviously public then it needs to be dealt with.

Doesn't really matter (other than the fact it's not acceptable) what a player says or does dissentfully if his body language doesn't make it obvious and it's said just between the 2 of you with nobody else hearing, but if everyone sees it, it undermines you and makes everyone think they can get away with it.
 
pdhmobile said:
I could have took a harder stance on them both but I had a mind set of it was a summer tournament and everyone was out for a bit of sun and good football.
Click to expand...
First thing I would add here, is that you need to get out of that mindset. That’s the same mindset of ‘it’s 3-0, I can let it slide’. Next thing you know, it’s gone to sh1ts. I completely get where you’re coming from, as I had that mindset for a long time. But it’ll do more harm than good. Said it plenty of times on here, but still stands true; best piece of advice I ever got was ‘players aren’t your mates’. And it’s so true.

As @RefereeX says, letting them get away with loud verbal or obviously physical different undermines you. If you’re undermined, players lose respect. Once you lost their respect, it makes the game a million times more difficult to control. And that respect is so difficult to get back.

Try and almost put yourself as though you’re standing on the sidelines. If you saw a referee letting someone get away with what you did, what would you think?

But it’s great that you’ve been able to recognise it. A lot of officials can be oblivious to what they’ve let go/missed. Well done!
 
So are we saying yellow card for the coach and if it's just between the player and me, and not public then a quite words, watch I've used before and it's worked.

Disappointed that I let the coach off with it TBH, but onwards and upwards
 
So
pdhmobile said:
So are we saying yellow card for the coach and if it's just between the player and me, and not public then a quite words, watch I've used before and it's worked.

Disappointed that I let the coach off with it TBH, but onwards and upwards
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So I wouldn’t absolutely live to the rule of if it’s only between you and the player, it cannot be a sin bin. But it’s a good starting ground
 
A player talking 1:1 with you and moaning about decisions doesn’t necessarily erode your match control. A manager shouting across the pitch does, by definition it can’t be quiet otherwise you wouldn’t hear it.

I’m always harder on managers than players when it comes to dissent. On several occasions when I’ve sent off a manager the behaviour of the players noticeably improved, and a couple of times the players thanked me for getting rid of them. One coach only lasted 55 seconds, he verbally unloaded on me over a dropped ball decision, so I took the approach that if that was his reaction to such a minor decision the game would be better off without him and duly sent him to the stands (he should have known better as I’d booted him before).
 
Set your line in the sand. That can be a public “thank you coach, I heard you,” or a calling-in for a player for a chat, or any variation that shows you’re DEALING with low level and that, anything above that, will probably have you issue sanctions.

Ignoring and playing deaf just won’t work. Nip the first one in the bud, and your game will be easier because you’ve just let them all know your level. If you don’t, they’ll push and push and push… because why wouldn’t you?

The security guard at Tesco has let you steal one sausage. Maybe he’ll let me have a second. I’ll try three next time… etc.
 
@pdhmobile
I won't add to the excellent advice already given here. I have a feeling you already knew all of it as a gutfeel and needed some ammunition to support you enforce it next time. Now you have it.
 
pdhmobile said:
Hi all,

I done a tournament on Sunday and thinking about it afterwards, I let slip some dissent go that I should have clamped down on.

First up was a tricky little player for one of the teams who, when he lost the ball claimed for a foul, every time and on done occasions went on a bit too long about certain cases. When I did award a free kick he was saying things like, about time, it's only the 3rd one this game etc. low level stuff really.

Second up was the mouthy coach on the sidelines, again shouting for a free kick every time one of his players went down, shouting what do we have to do to get a free kick, in the back ref, hand ball ref, and asking why free kicks where giving.

I could have took a harder stance on them both but I had a mind set of it was a summer tournament and everyone was out for a bit of sun and good football.

It got me thinking though that in the coming season, I'm going to lower my dissent threshold right down and take no back chat/questioning from anyone.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I would stop the game at an appropriate point. Approach the manager and explain that this game needs just one referee.

If he was to continue to "offer advice" ask if how he can do this when he's been sent off.

I know it's easy to say but when warned a lot of manager's react positively.
 
Some good advice on this thread but I would also steer you towards the 3Ps principle.
P - Personal
P - Public
P - Persistent
I ref in leagues where there sin-bin is in play.
If I hear dissent that is persistent (but hasn’t been personal or public) and continues after a warning then I’ll sin-bin then.
If it’s public and personal, even a first offence then sin bin.
Public without the other two depends on the severity and the temperature of the match at that time.
Personal without the other two again depends on severity and what else is going on.
 
Dicky Herts said:
Some good advice on this thread but I would also steer you towards the 3Ps principle.
P - Personal
P - Public
P - Persistent
I ref in leagues where there sin-bin is in play.
If I hear dissent that is persistent (but hasn’t been personal or public) and continues after a warning then I’ll sin-bin then.
If it’s public and personal, even a first offence then sin bin.
Public without the other two depends on the severity and the temperature of the match at that time.
Personal without the other two again depends on severity and what else is going on.
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Sure I’ve seen that somewhere before ;)

For clarity, I’d suggest Provocative rather than Personal as the first P here. When the commentary becomes PERSONAL in nature (eg ref, you’re effin s**t) rather than relating specifically to a decision, you might lean more towards an OFFINABUS red.
 
pdhmobile said:
Hi all,

I done a tournament on Sunday and thinking about it afterwards, I let slip some dissent go that I should have clamped down on.

First up was a tricky little player for one of the teams who, when he lost the ball claimed for a foul, every time and on done occasions went on a bit too long about certain cases. When I did award a free kick he was saying things like, about time, it's only the 3rd one this game etc. low level stuff really.

Second up was the mouthy coach on the sidelines, again shouting for a free kick every time one of his players went down, shouting what do we have to do to get a free kick, in the back ref, hand ball ref, and asking why free kicks where giving.

I could have took a harder stance on them both but I had a mind set of it was a summer tournament and everyone was out for a bit of sun and good football.

It got me thinking though that in the coming season, I'm going to lower my dissent threshold right down and take no back chat/questioning from anyone.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
All sound advice on here already given. 👍

With the "tricky little player" trying to live inside your head with sarcastic comments etc. it can be difficult since appealing for fouls and general moaning often doesn't "feel" like dissent.

What normally works for me is either holding up play or waiting for a convenient stoppage following his latest remark (use your whistle if you have to) and saying something like: "Okay, you're entitled to your opinion mate but you're starting to distract me now. Next time you criticise me - you're going over there for 10 mins - up to you!!" (or words to that effect).

That way you've given them every chance to cut it out whilst setting them (and yourself) up for an easy dissent Sin Bin following his next remark.
 
Kes said:
All sound advice on here already given. 👍

With the "tricky little player" trying to live inside your head with sarcastic comments etc. it can be difficult since appealing for fouls and general moaning often doesn't "feel" like dissent.

What normally works for me is either holding up play or waiting for a convenient stoppage following his latest remark (use your whistle if you have to) and saying something like: "Okay, you're entitled to your opinion mate but you're starting to distract me now. Next time you criticise me - you're going over there for 10 mins - up to you!!" (or words to that effect).

That way you've given them every chance to cut it out whilst setting them (and yourself) up for an easy dissent Sin Bin following his next remark.
Click to expand...
Great advice from @Kes. I do something similar, giving them three choices; in a stoppage of play, and quite publicly (ideally so either captain or coach, or both can hear) it would go something like this:

“You’ve got three choices now:

1. I’m the referee today, and that’s not going to change. You can accept that and get on with your game.

2. If your not happy with me as a referee, that’s absolutely fine, just ask your boss to sub you off.

3. But if neither of those two happen, and you keep chipping away at me, I will put you in the sin bin for ten minutes.

Okay? It’s your decision, yeah? Ok, let’s get on and play some football “

I stole the idea from someone on here (can’t remember who, so can’t give due credit, sorry) and it has worked well for me over the years.
 
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