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Belgium v Wales

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ladbroke8745

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Anyone seen the disallowed goal for ball out of play for a throw in?
I'd love to know how they can conclusively say that 100% of the ball was out of play.
Did the assistant flag for out of play, or say he thinks it is out but I'll play on to see what happens?
 
The Ref Stop
Having watched the video is slow mo, and tried to pause it at exactly the right moment, it certainly does not look out of play to me!!
I understand that the camera angle isn't ideal, and hopefully VAR had an angle down the line, but it wasn't a good look!
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Anyone seen the disallowed goal for ball out of play for a throw in?
I'd love to know how they can conclusively say that 100% of the ball was out of play.
Did the assistant flag for out of play, or say he thinks it is out but I'll play on to see what happens?
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Haven't seen it, but presumably it's possible that the AR has actually made the decision that the ball was out of play on field but adopted the wait and see technique, then VAR couldn't prove him conclusively wrong so on field decision stood.

Not sure if this is inkeeping with VAR protocol though in terms of whether a ball out of play decision can do the whole 'wait and see' thing?
 
RefereeX said:
Haven't seen it, but presumably it's possible that the AR has actually made the decision that the ball was out of play on field but adopted the wait and see technique, then VAR couldn't prove him conclusively wrong so on field decision stood.

Not sure if this is inkeeping with VAR protocol though in terms of whether a ball out of play decision can do the whole 'wait and see' thing?
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I’ve seen a couple of examples this season when an assistant has delayed flagging for a goal kick decision. Not sure I’ve seen one for a throw in though.
 
It was a shambles. Took forever to decide. Resulted in multiple cautions for misconduct on and off the FOP and killed an otherwise exciting game
Yet, I understood it was only the PGMOL who took VAR to this next level
 
Did enjoy the ref’s communication(s) with Tielemans and whoever the Welsh captain was during the multiple l.e.n.g.t.h.y. breaks

Very much a ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ vibe.
 
RustyRef said:
I thought the first penalty for handball by Brennan Johnson was incredibly harsh. His arm was pretty much by his side and if anything he was trying to move it away, even by UEFA standards that seems harsh. VAR also took an age on it, although I think that was more around determining whether Lukaku should be penalised for offside.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1932151982506266782
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Seemed harsh to me also. It really did appear to me that the position of his hand/arm was a consequence of, and justifiable by, his body movement for that specific situation, and had not made his body unnaturally bigger.
 
RustyRef said:
I thought the first penalty for handball by Brennan Johnson was incredibly harsh. His arm was pretty much by his side and if anything he was trying to move it away, even by UEFA standards that seems harsh. VAR also took an age on it, although I think that was more around determining whether Lukaku should be penalised for offside.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1932151982506266782
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Agreed. Ridiculous decision
It's always seemed to be that our International Football Community has a completely different mindset regarding HB
Not just the Referees, but it seems spectators and everyone want HB for any contact with hand. IFAB must end up piggy in the middle
To protect our game in the UK, I've wondered if now's the time for multiple rule books. Certainly I feel strongly that our grass roots game needs a different book from the Pro game
Who is at fault when a player dissents in my first game of the season when the same thing happens and I waive it away?
 
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Genuine question:

If the ball leaves the field of play, is that an offence?

I only ask as from what I can make out the protocol says that that the flag/whistle should be delayed following an offence. So technically,.strict application, delaying the flag/whistle in a ball out of play situation would be wrong?

Obviously there is a spirit of the protocol question in that if a goal can be ruled out following conclusive evidence a ball is out of play then, perhaps the spirit and fairness means that in very very close situations a delayed flag/whistle should be acceptable.

Just an interesting point of note I've been thinking about on this one.

Also in my opinion it's not a handball offence. The body is not made unnaturally bigger it doesn't seem deliberate and be is trying to actively avoid it. A difficult one for VAR to step in on though as the referee has clearly seen it and made a decision, he may believe deliberate and it he does showing him it again is unlikely to yield an overturn.
 
Only just seen the handball by BJ. Poor decision for me, very harsh.

I can live with it a touch more because it was given on field, had VAR recommended that I'd have said it was horrendously bad.
 
How clear and obvious was the error of the AR when it came to the ball being in and out of play? Isn't that what VAR is there for? That it took 4 mins says it wasn't clear. The AR had the best view. He didn't give it. Leave it at that.
 
JamesL said:
Genuine question:

If the ball leaves the field of play, is that an offence?

I only ask as from what I can make out the protocol says that that the flag/whistle should be delayed following an offence. So technically,.strict application, delaying the flag/whistle in a ball out of play situation would be wrong?

Obviously there is a spirit of the protocol question in that if a goal can be ruled out following conclusive evidence a ball is out of play then, perhaps the spirit and fairness means that in very very close situations a delayed flag/whistle should be acceptable.

Just an interesting point of note I've been thinking about on this one.

Also in my opinion it's not a handball offence. The body is not made unnaturally bigger it doesn't seem deliberate and be is trying to actively avoid it. A difficult one for VAR to step in on though as the referee has clearly seen it and made a decision, he may believe deliberate and it he does showing him it again is unlikely to yield an overturn.
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Very valid point, there has been no offence so can the AR really delay the flag? But I suspect that is just another example of bad / incomplete wording and the expectation from IFAB would expect it to be delayed.

As for the handball, agree, don't think VAR can take any blame once the referee gave it, but I think it is a really poor decision by one of the elite referees. Johnson's arm was exactly where it would be expected to be in that situation, if we are going to be giving penalties for that we might as well say if the ball hits your arm it is always an offence, that would lead to chaos but at least it would be consistent chaos.
 
Homer Ref said:
How clear and obvious was the error of the AR when it came to the ball being in and out of play? Isn't that what VAR is there for? That it took 4 mins says it wasn't clear. The AR had the best view. He didn't give it. Leave it at that.
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Except that's surely not a case where the clear and obvious test applies. It's a factual decision, like offside or the point of contact for an offence inside or outside the penalty area. Either the whole of the ball was over the whole of the line or it wasn't.

However, the amount of time they took to reach a decision suggests there wasn't an angle that showed it really definitively, at least not at first. And if it wasn't absolutely, definitely out of play, it shouldn't have been given as a throw in.
 
Homer Ref said:
How clear and obvious was the error of the AR when it came to the ball being in and out of play? Isn't that what VAR is there for? That it took 4 mins says it wasn't clear. The AR had the best view. He didn't give it. Leave it at that.
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As @Peter Grove has said, this is a factual decision. At any given point in time a ball can't be both in play or out of play, it can only be one or the other and therefore is factual and C&O doesn't apply. That said, if they are going to use VAR for ball in and out of play decisions they really need to make sure there is a camera on both goal and touch lines.
 
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