Prayers up for Taiwo Awoniyi

[RustyRef]

I do think the fact that it has been reported that he is in a coma has made the reaction to this worse than it would have been. I heard it explained today, he is in an induced coma, that means the medics have intentionally put him in that position. The reason being that when they completed the first operation they realised a second would be needed, and it is safer for the patient to leave them unconscious rather than let them come round from the general anaesthetic only to put them straight back under again. Yes, it was a very serious injury, but the word coma usually implies life threatening and that isn't really the case here.

Players have hit the post before and suffered serious injury, for those too young to have seen it at the time google Phil Babb and post and be prepared to wince (he broke his coccyx in that incident).

Sian Massey will no doubt not be feeling great about it, but ultimately she did what she has been asked to do. For all the grief she is getting from keyboard warriors, it would no doubt be 10 fold worse had she flagged early and been wrong and therefore denied a potential goal.

 

[The Gump]

I’ve not blamed the officials at any stage, and very few others have either - the issue is with the directive that allows play to continue wholly unnecessarily.

 

[RustyRef]

I’ve not blamed the officials at any stage, and very few others have either - the issue is with the directive that allows play to continue wholly unnecessarily.

I was talking about general social media rather than people on this site.

 

[one]

I am neutral around flagging early or waiting. What I am against is knee jerk reactions.

Matters like this is always about finding the right balance. "Player safety always comes first" is not absolute. There have been many similar cases where the player has actually been onside yet safety concerns had not been raised. "Goal post injury" can easily be avoided (onside, offside or general play) by wrapping the posts rugby style. But the sport accepts the risk when balancing it with the impact on the game.

There are many other safety risks that are accepted by the sport. Heading the ball has been a high profile one. Not enforcing shinpads was one I didn't like, and more.

I guess what I am saying is that it's not as simple as saying let's avoid a repeat by flagging early from now on. Because that would only last until when the next early flag denies a team scoring a valid goal on a high profile game.

 

[Viridis1886]

Sian Massey will no doubt not be feeling great about it, but ultimately she did what she has been asked to do. For all the grief she is getting from keyboard warriors, it would no doubt be 10 fold worse had she flagged early and been wrong and therefore denied a potential goal.

If you read the comments on BBC Sport (and I reckon it's a more balanced forum than Twitter) there is mainly support for the AR and the discussion is about the protocol rather than the person.

Obviously a few think she should have been a clairvoyant and raised the flag against the protocol to have prevented it. Others think that if she was not female it wouldn't have happened.

 

[Kieran W]

I'm old enough to remember when the guidance was exactly what everyone is now asking for and guess what? Everyone complained about it then too

✂️ Shelvey Goal

59 seconds · Clipped by Kieran Widdowson · Original video "VAR drama surrounds Shelvey goal 😲| Sheffield United 0-2 Newcastle | Premier League Highlights" b...

youtube.com

 

[RustyRef]

I'm old enough to remember when the guidance was exactly what everyone is now asking for and guess what? Everyone complained about it then too

✂️ Shelvey Goal

59 seconds · Clipped by Kieran Widdowson · Original video "VAR drama surrounds Shelvey goal 😲| Sheffield United 0-2 Newcastle | Premier League Highlights" b...

youtube.com

Exactly that, people want the best of both worlds and that just isn't possible.

 

[The Gump]

Exactly that, people want the best of both worlds and that just isn't possible.

Correct. What I would say is this. With the media and social media they way it is, the referees performance, decision making and "role" in the outcome of any game is going to be intensely critiqued, massively overblown and subjected to ignorant (in every sense of the word) comment and downright abuse from trolls. The former because it's clickbait, the latter because people don't know how to behave.

However, that die is cast regardless of the LOTG, their desired interpretation and any directives given.

I'm not advocating a kneejerk reaction, have given this some extensive thought and know it's not a panacea, but it needs a proper debate as to if the directive ought to be changed. Not changing it simply because it will lead inevitably to the occasional wrong decision, and the disproportionate criticism that will come with that, is not in and of itself justification not to change it. However, serious injuries that would have been avoided by a timely flag is a justification for changing it.

 

[GraemeS]

I can't really think of any way it is possible to run any VAR system (current, challenge-based or other) that judges offside and doesn't incorporate some element of "delay on close decisions". We can do delays, or we can get factual offside wrong sometimes. That's the choice.

 

[RefereeX]

I can't really think of any way it is possible to run any VAR system (current, challenge-based or other) that judges offside and doesn't incorporate some element of "delay on close decisions". We can do delays, or we can get factual offside wrong sometimes. That's the choice.

And even then, how close is close?
If you are told to only delay on the really close ones, then eventually you're gonna get one you thought wasn't really close that turns out to still be wrong.
People need to decide what they want, and for me, the chance of a player getting seriously hurt when the offside flag could have already gone up is so slim, nothing needs to change.
If being offside had any correlation to the chances of a player getting hurt, I'd agree it needs looking at, but I think it's only because the delayed flags are a consequence of VAR that people are questioning it. If it had always been a normal part of football, nobody would have even considered it any part of the problem.

 

[GraemeS]

Exactly. I'm sure historically there are decision where an AR has incorrectly decided a player is onside and kept the flag down, and injury has resulted. This has always been a thing.

 

[QuaverRef]

Exactly. I'm sure historically there are decision where an AR has incorrectly decided a player is onside and kept the flag down, and injury has resulted. This has always been a thing.

If Wenger gets his way then this would have actually be onside. Would we be blaming him following the injury?

 

[ladbroke8745]

Did i see some early flags today??

 

[Kes]

Ridiculous debate.
Naff all to do with offside or not flag.
Bloke collided with a goalpost FFS!!

 

[Kes]

Correct. What I would say is this. With the media and social media they way it is, the referees performance, decision making and "role" in the outcome of any game is going to be intensely critiqued, massively overblown and subjected to ignorant (in every sense of the word) comment and downright abuse from trolls. The former because it's clickbait, the latter because people don't know how to behave.

However, that die is cast regardless of the LOTG, their desired interpretation and any directives given.

I'm not advocating a kneejerk reaction, have given this some extensive thought and know it's not a panacea, but it needs a proper debate as to if the directive ought to be changed. Not changing it simply because it will lead inevitably to the occasional wrong decision, and the disproportionate criticism that will come with that, is not in and of itself justification not to change it. However, serious injuries that would have been avoided by a timely flag is a justification for changing it.

Your justification for "change" above doesn't make any sense. Life and contact sport have too many variables.
A bloke running into a goal post to try and score has zero to do with an ARs flag or not.
What next?
I can just see the BBCs future gems:
"Should referees be blowing for free kicks before they happen (to avoid player injury)?
Or how about "Should goal posts be inflatable (to avoid player injury)?

I can't even believe this is being discussed ...

 

[one]

What next?

Headball is an offence (concussion, brain injury...)

Unless of course it is not deliberate, or the head is in a natural position for the movement...

 

[Runner Ref]

"Should referees be blowing for free kicks before they happen (to avoid player injury)?
Or how about "Should goal posts be inflatable (to avoid player injury)?

I can't even believe this is being discussed ...

You might be on to something......

 

[Kes]

You might be on to something......

View attachment 8153

Totally.
Must be something the match officials or the LOTG could have done to prevent the above.
Maybe the ref should have given a free kick 45 seconds earlier and then the whole sorry mess could have been avoided....

 

[The Gump]

Your justification for "change" above doesn't make any sense. Life and contact sport have too many variables.
A bloke running into a goal post to try and score has zero to do with an ARs flag or not.
What next?
I can just see the BBCs future gems:
"Should referees be blowing for free kicks before they happen (to avoid player injury)?
Or how about "Should goal posts be inflatable (to avoid player injury)?

I can't even believe this is being discussed ...

It’s totally fair enough to disagree, but to say the flag or lack thereof had nothing to do with the injury and offering ludicrous comparators to argue against it when the rationale has been clearly explained is pretty feeble.

 

[QuaverRef]

It’s totally fair enough to disagree, but to say the flag or lack thereof had nothing to do with the injury and offering ludicrous comparators to argue against it when the rationale has been clearly explained is pretty feeble.

It’s a mere coincidence. As the screenshot above showed from yesterday, Bowen collided with the post and cut his head open. Not a word mentioned because there was no refereeing impact, yet an injury occurred due to someone colliding with the post. The media have pushed a refereeing agenda for the Forest injury.