ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
Now that a sin bin is treated in the same way as any other caution, why would a different colour card be needed?
Card, two-armed point towards the technical area (or equivalent). . . job done.
Situations That Have Never Happened To You
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Card, two-armed point towards the technical area (or equivalent). . . job done.
Runner Ref
RefChat Addict
But it's not 100% treated like a caution, as the player has to leave the field of play. Yes you point towards the technical area, but this, from what I have seen, is not always too clear. Simply bringing in a blue, green, brown or whatever card would stop any possible confusion.
The above post being a prime example
This is one confusion in probably tens of thuosands of sin bins, and sorry @RefereeX, probably not helped by the referee as written.
My view is that everyone knows in games, where in operation, dissent is a sin bin. So it no one knows what the caution is for them dissent probably hasn't occurred given that the very definition of dissent is public protest or disagreement. (Caveat that sometimes it's not public but we go through a process to make it public such as stepped approach).
We dont need a different colour card because that would be more confusing, especially now, that as @ChasObserverRefDeveloper points out, a sin bin caution is equal to others.
I think i would have entertained the idea a bit more back when you could get 3 cautions but now 2 = red, dissent and sin bin should be obvious and so there shouldn't really be confusion.
Runner Ref
RefChat Addict
A dissent caution is not always clear to people. Low level dissent may not be obvious to everyone else.
Bringing in a different colour card is hardly re-inventing the wheel, but would br a proactive step to stop incidents like above.
No issue with that opinion, although I do still think in my scenario, calling the player back would have been the wrong thing to do.
Hard to explain, and you probably had to be there but by the time I had the card out to show he was almost off the field. He knew he was being sin binned, and so did everyone else. Not sure what my other AR was playing at if he said he didn't know, because it was very public dissent.
Had I called him back, he absolutely would have lost his head and been sent off, and I would have faced accusations of over management and making it all about me etc.
Always been told the card is for everyone else, the player knows they're cautioned because you tell them. In this case, the player was told he was sin binned, everyone else saw the card.
My point is that it should be. The very meaning of the word public suggests that it should be. And if it isn't, then you as the referee have to make it public by using the stepped approach, or simply communicating effectively.
Forcing likely hundreds of thousands of referees around the world to have to buy a different colour card to fix a once in a few thousand issue is massive overkill imo. With the changes there isn't an issue to fix really.
Runner Ref
RefChat Addict
Not really. You can have used the stepped approach and then get a low level comment you need to act upon.
It's a cheap piece of plastic. I dont think it would be a major inconvenience for people to buy one. I'm sure The FA or local County FA's could buy a few.
One of my big pet hates within refereeing is communication, or lack thereof. Anything that fab improve it can only be seen as a good thing.
Perhaps I read it wrong... I understand that you didn't want to antagonise an already fractured relationship with the player, which makes perfect sense. Maybe you could have waited until he had left the field, and turned around? There always potential solutions, which always seems clearer. After the event.
But, if it was as clear as you say the blame lies with the Assistant then, either not paying attention or chucking you under the bus! Possibly the latter since he raised the issue you once he came back on...
Since matey ended up walking anyway, you might as well have just sent him off.
Yeah I'm on the side that a different card colour would have been appropriate for the old laws but now it just counts as a normal caution, a yellow followed by a point to the sideline should suffice, although I haven't done it for some time.
I did have a chuckle last year to hear about how Will Finnie had to study the laws on sin bins in preparation for refereeing the FA Vase final at Wembley having never used them before!
I did have a chuckle last year to hear about how Will Finnie had to study the laws on sin bins in preparation for refereeing the FA Vase final at Wembley having never used them before!
Supply and demand... Almost certainly the price will get jacked when all of a sudden every single referee needs to buy one.
All to fix and issue that doesn't really exist.
Runner Ref
RefChat Addict
I doubt theyre going to Jack up price on a piece of plastic. And even if they do, it's really only a 1 time thing you'd need to purchase.
Communication is key. Make life easier for everyone and everything clearer. Whether you like it or not, if people see a flash of yellow, they aren't going to necessarily flag its a sin bin, as yellow also means caution.
Whereas telling them green always= sin bin makes life so much easier.
Runner Ref
RefChat Addict
You're unlikely to at your level. Go and do grassroots refereeing and you'll see it more often than you think.Well, since the title of the thread is situations that have never happened...
I have never had, nor seen, any confusion over a player being sin binned.
Thus I don't really see a need to change something that, as far as I can see, is not broken.
Do you not remember COVID when people were paying north of £100 quid for a&h flags and ridiculous money for the loks??
I still referee often at step 7 and below, and I operate as a matchday coach and an observer at step 5 and 6, and I also go and watch local games when free so I'm consuming plenty of games where the sin bin is in operation.
I was also a level 4 referee when they came in and at one point had issues a third of all sin bins (6/18) in the league (not quite sure what that says about me as a referee though...
)Runner Ref
RefChat Addict
I dont. But a flag is a bit more niche than a plain piece of plastic
Indony understand why anyone wouldn't want to make life easier for all involved
It's a simple change, but a large undertaking to fix a once in a few thousand problem.
In my line of work I see people wanting to make big changes for small problems all the time. And they just don't understand that to fix the problem costs X and that's less than the Y benefit they will get from the change.
In a world where we have referees who continue to enforce out of date laws, introducing a blue card probably just make things even more confusing when one ref uses a blue card another doesn't especially when, by and large, the existing system is fit for purpose and universally understood by all.
I think before this year's change i'd have been more open to it but now a caution equals a caution I don't really see the benefit Vs the inevitable variation and subsequent confusion that will cause.
It's a bucket load of work to fix a very infrequent issue.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
But they will know it is a Sin Bin because the offender will walk off, and only then will play restart.
A different colour card is unnecessary and makes life more difficult for the referee with no benefit.
I observe a large number of games at levels which include Sin Bins, and like @JamesL have never seen any confusion.
Runner Ref
RefChat Addict
That's like saying we might as well get rid of red cards higher up the ladder, as if a player walks off, they've clearly been sent off. Cards were brought in as a communication tool. Nothing wrong with adding/adapting.