Ars v Tot

[ladbroke8745]

Big missed call by ref for awarding a corner to Arsenal that lead to their equaliser.
Its not like he was obstructed. I get AR is other side of pitch too but surely they must've, between them, knew who the last touch (clearly too) came off.

Was debating something similar where corners have come off the back of close offsides where the ARs are delaying flags and/or not getting the tight calls correctly. Corners can be gained from this and, like Arsenal yesterday, goals scored from it.

Every goal is checked for offside etc, but once a corner is taken and a goal, they can only go back to the restart (corner) and not see the offside offence before.

I'm not saying I want every thing checked by the way.
What I am saying is, I do wonder whether any attacking benefit should maybe be checked especially when semi automated comes in.

 

[Kent Ref]

These things happen so quickly even the best are left to guess.

If i'm 50:50 on GK/Corner i always go GK.

 

[Garincha]

I agree, the cornerback was questionable. 50/50
But in general, the referee did a good job in this match.

 

[RefereeX]

Happens to literally every referee ever. Other than the concentration and positioning aspect which can make you more likely to get it correct, there is no reason a top flight official would be any better at judging a corner/goal kick decision than anyone else. Thing is, if we know we've got it wrong, we can find a very easy defensive free kick to counter act it. Top flight officials don't really have that get out.

 

[Runner Ref]

Happens to literally every referee ever. Other than the concentration and positioning aspect which can make you more likely to get it correct, there is no reason a top flight official would be any better at judging a corner/goal kick decision than anyone else. Thing is, if we know we've got it wrong, we can find a very easy defensive free kick to counter act it. Top flight officials don't really have that get out.

Lee Mason used to do that on a weekly basis!

 

[RefereeX]

Lee Mason used to do that on a weekly basis!

Lee Mason wasn't previously advised to delay calling defensive fouls in immediately promising attacking positions to see the outcome so that if a goal is scored and the foul is incorrect then VAR can recommend a review, but I take your point.

 

[Runner Ref]

Lee Mason wasn't previously advised to delay calling defensive fouls in immediately promising attacking positions to see the outcome so that if a goal is scored and the foul is incorrect then VAR can recommend a review, but I take your point.

I mean he loved finding a foul when he had clearly got a corner decision wrong!

 

[RustyRef]

Real time I thought the Arsenal player was off the pitch when it hit him, and that would make corner correct. Unless I missed it they didn't show a replay that conclusively proved either way. Found this and it looks like Trossard was probably just about still on the pitch, but it was tight as his knee is much closer to the line than his foot. Either way, I can understand if wrong, Hooper would have been pretty much guessing from his angle, especially as Trossard's momentum took him off the pitch, and the AR had no chance of helping due to Pedro's body.

 

[RustyRef]

Every goal is checked for offside etc, but once a corner is taken and a goal, they can only go back to the restart (corner) and not see the offside offence before.

No, they cannot check restarts, even if an incorrectly awarded one leads directly to a goal.

 

[Runner Ref]

Real time I thought the Arsenal player was off the pitch when it hit him, and that would make corner correct. Unless I missed it they didn't show a replay that conclusively proved either way. Found this and it looks like Trossard was probably just about still on the pitch, but it was tight as his knee is much closer to the line than his foot. Either way, I can understand if wrong, Hooper would have been pretty much guessing from his angle, especially as Trossard's momentum took him off the pitch, and the AR had no chance of helping due to Pedro's body.

View attachment 7843

Stills obviously have to be taken with a pinch of salt, but that stills shows a ball that is in reality a long way in

 

[RustyRef]

Stills obviously have to be taken with a pinch of salt, but that stills shows a ball that is in reality a long way in

Not completely sure I froze it at the right time, but my point is from where Hooper was that would be very difficult to judge, and his AR was almost certainly blocked off.

 

[ladbroke8745]

No, they cannot check restarts, even if an incorrectly awarded one leads directly to a goal.

I meant that they can only go as far as the restart, if necessary, and not before.

 

[ladbroke8745]

Real time I thought the Arsenal player was off the pitch when it hit him, and that would make corner correct. Unless I missed it they didn't show a replay that conclusively proved either way. Found this and it looks like Trossard was probably just about still on the pitch, but it was tight as his knee is much closer to the line than his foot. Either way, I can understand if wrong, Hooper would have been pretty much guessing from his angle, especially as Trossard's momentum took him off the pitch, and the AR had no chance of helping due to Pedro's body.

View attachment 7843

I've circled the ball and the leg. Surely the distant of leg still on the field and the ball hitting the knee must be a give away its a quite definitely still on the pitch.
The referee is also much closer and has better image than a camera angle at a distance.

 

[RustyRef]

I've circled the ball and the leg. Surely the distant of leg still on the field and the ball hitting the knee must be a give away its a quite definitely still on the pitch.
The referee is also much closer and has better image than a camera angle at a distance.View attachment 7846

Not necessarily, as his other leg is clearly off the pitch, his foot is clearly much more on the pitch than his knee is, and the ball hit his knee not his foot. I think in all likelihood it should have been a goal kick, but given Trossard's momentum was taking off the pitch it made it a much more difficult decision. Hooper was, from memory, around 20m away looking at it almost straight on, and it is very difficult to judge whether a ball in the air is over the line when you are looking at it square on.

There was a far worse one in the Man Utd game tonight, the ball was over the line by at least 1m, possibly more, but the keeper who cleared it was between the AR and the ball blocking his view, plus it was a fast attack so he was nowhere near the goal line. I'd have more criticism of Brooks tonight as it was very obviously out, last night with Hooper was much tighter.

 

[socal lurker]

I have long thought that CK/GK is a likely extension of VAR. I hate VAR all around, but it seems to me it would be a relatively innocuous change. It is a significant decision that is usually quick to see is wrong so would not be expected to cause delays.

 

[one]

I have long thought that CK/GK is a likely extension of VAR. I hate VAR all around, but it seems to me it would be a relatively innocuous change. It is a significant decision that is usually quick to see is wrong so would not be expected to cause delays.

Agreed but not VAR. It's an extension of GLT wherever it is available. It is quick and a buzz on the watch can tell ref ball is out of play.

You can add TI to it as well, as a goal can from it too(not directly)

 

[Peter Grove]

Real time I thought the Arsenal player was off the pitch when it hit him, and that would make corner correct. Unless I missed it they didn't show a replay that conclusively proved either way. Found this and it looks like Trossard was probably just about still on the pitch, but it was tight as his knee is much closer to the line than his foot. Either way, I can understand if wrong, Hooper would have been pretty much guessing from his angle, especially as Trossard's momentum took him off the pitch, and the AR had no chance of helping due to Pedro's body.

Although not an ideal angle either, I think the still below gives us enough information to draw a conclusion.

This is the moment the ball hits Trossard's knee and given where his foot is, and what we know about human anatomy I think it's a fairly safe bet that the ball would not have been wholly over the line at this moment.

 

[Russell Jones]

Real time I thought the Arsenal player was off the pitch when it hit him, and that would make corner correct. Unless I missed it they didn't show a replay that conclusively proved either way. Found this and it looks like Trossard was probably just about still on the pitch, but it was tight as his knee is much closer to the line than his foot. Either way, I can understand if wrong, Hooper would have been pretty much guessing from his angle, especially as Trossard's momentum took him off the pitch, and the AR had no chance of helping due to Pedro's body.

View attachment 7843

I agree, a tough call to make and not unreasonable to assume that there was an element of guesswork in the referee’s decision.

That said, even on the introductory referee course, we teach officials that, if in serious doubt, go defensive. This incident is the perfect demonstration as to why this is good advice!!

 

[bester]

The semi-automated offside technology can track ball position eventually they'll be able to use it for ball in and out play

 

[Runner Ref]

The semi-automated offside technology can track ball position eventually they'll be able to use it for ball in and out play

Out of interest on this, does anyone know what our semi-automated offsides will be? The delay has been ongoing for a while now, are they just waiting it the Puma ball to come in next year?