Exactly. I think it’s the inconsistency which irks people. Clear and obvious is such a vague term.
ARS vs CIT
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ladbroke8745
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C&O will always be vague as it cannot be set in stone as to what is clearly & obviously wrong.
I do think the first challenge was a straight red, but can totally understand it not being seen as C&O.
Rather than having VAR checking and inputting when they feel fit, I’d still like to see a tennis-style challenge system brought in. Allow clubs to challenge specific incidents, in which the referee has to go over and take a look. That way it gives the clubs an element of control, as well as keeping the on-field officials on control
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He’s never going to get involved in a decision as to whether a player is in an offside position or not. How would a 4th Official have a better view than the AR, VAR or AVAR?
Why was Darren England intervening last week with a freeze frame shown to Hooper when he arrived at VAR. I don’t see the difference, sorry.
You freeze frame that impact as Michael Oliver walks up to the screen then it’s a red card
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One was deemed to be C&O and the other one wasn’t. This is what I’m saying, there will never be consistency as to what C&O is, as it’s a vague term you can’t pin down.
I think both the Jones & Kovacic challenges are red. If I had to guess why one was deemed C&O and other wasn’t, I’d say maybe Kovacics leg being slightly bent and contact being a bit lower has saved him. That’s the only thing I can come up with.
Will be interesting to see if Webb discusses this on the next mic’d up session he does
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One player goes over the ball in a clear attempt to play the ball, the other player is not even close to playing the ball.
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Those are fair points to counteract. But bear in mind that what the player intended to do isn’t really a factor
Both are red in my view, based on my understanding of the laws of the game. Yet, the one which is only a yellow, the player is nowhere near getting the ball.
ladbroke8745
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Did you know MO last double yellow, in the PL, was way back in April 2022?
His last "major" PL game where he sent someone off was Arsenal v Tottenham, in 2021.
He only sent 2 off last season (22/23), only 1 on English soil, in 45 games, the other in the game between PSG and Bayern in the CL.
In 2021/22, he done 3 doubles, in games between Wolves and Arsenal, Wolves and Everton, and West Ham and Everton. 4 straight reds in West Ham and Leicester, Chelsea and West Ham and Brentford and Everton (2 in same match).
You have to go back to 2020/21 to find a red card in one of the "big" matches, the double yellow in the Arsenal v Tottenham match, and earlier in season in the Merseyside derby.
Since that Arsenal game in he has done 13 (14 including today), where no red cards have been issued in games involving the supposed top 6 (Man Utd/City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal and Chelsea).
Not saying the games may have needed them, can't remember them, but some have plenty of yellows. So potential for a 2nd yellow could have been high.
His last "major" PL game where he sent someone off was Arsenal v Tottenham, in 2021.
He only sent 2 off last season (22/23), only 1 on English soil, in 45 games, the other in the game between PSG and Bayern in the CL.
In 2021/22, he done 3 doubles, in games between Wolves and Arsenal, Wolves and Everton, and West Ham and Everton. 4 straight reds in West Ham and Leicester, Chelsea and West Ham and Brentford and Everton (2 in same match).
You have to go back to 2020/21 to find a red card in one of the "big" matches, the double yellow in the Arsenal v Tottenham match, and earlier in season in the Merseyside derby.
Since that Arsenal game in he has done 13 (14 including today), where no red cards have been issued in games involving the supposed top 6 (Man Utd/City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal and Chelsea).
Not saying the games may have needed them, can't remember them, but some have plenty of yellows. So potential for a 2nd yellow could have been high.
I think it is a red personally, but I don't think it was a clear and obvious error to not send off. The contact was low and that probably saved him. There's also a misunderstanding based on some posts, they can't ask Oliver to go and have a look to see if he has made a clear and obvious error, rather VAR have to determine that this has happened before they can recommend a review.
The second one is probably a caution, but I think most SG1 referees would manage this. People are comparing it to Jota's last week, but that was SPA and it can't be SPA here given where it was on the pitch and the movement of the players. So the only question is was it reckless, I would say possibly but not definitely.
The second one is probably a caution, but I think most SG1 referees would manage this. People are comparing it to Jota's last week, but that was SPA and it can't be SPA here given where it was on the pitch and the movement of the players. So the only question is was it reckless, I would say possibly but not definitely.
Feels like as with Peter Bankes in the West Ham game, if a player makes technically 2 yellow card challenges but they are quite close to each other and it happens in the first half of the game, then there is more leniency it would seem to keep it 11 against 11(one may argue, at least a bit of consistency). As others have said, it feels like in this case, Oliver was managing the event instead of a football match.
ladbroke8745
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When was the last time, if ever, Michael Oliver was asked to go to the monitor to change his decision?
Forest vs Bournemouth last year? He was asked to go to monitor but didn't change his decision
Ridiculous setup where VAR officials seem to be intimidated by Michael Oliver. That’s we need all the ‘mate’ stuff out of the equation.
I still go back to Howard Webb’s decision to let Oliver and England go and officiate in the UAE mid season, and just before big Premiership games has seriously damaged the credibility of these officials, whether we like it or not
Bizarre justification and a bit desperate from Webb, just a week after Simon Hooper had absolutely no problem sending off two Liverpool players
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I fully agree on the part about sending them to UAE.
But them calling each other mate, pal or a nickname is not the end of the world. They could start calling each by their first names, Mr, Mrs, Sir or Madam; it’s not going to change anything. Improvements need to be made, but VAR is an imperfection solution to an imperfect problem. It will never be 100% correct, as there will always be a grey area, aside from most offside and goal line decisions.
The insight we’re getting from PGMOL is far more than we have ever had. Hopefully them releasing the audio will become more commonplace.
But seems to be an issue with VAR and Michael Oliver, as they clearly didn’t want to intervene and tell him he has made a ‘c&o’ error, as he is our top referee.
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And last week people were saying there’s an issue with Darren England and VAR.
I don’t have any examples, facts or figures in front of me; but maybe Michael Oliver gets more big decisions correct than the rest, thus less need for VAR input