Junior/Youth Managers...
- Thread starter HarryD
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@HarryD Perhaps check this (rather controversial!) thread out! (http://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/lenience.2873/) It will probably provide you with more questions and answers but may help you come to your own conclusions on refereeing youth football! Obviously I subscribe to my own (and @hattersfan 's) viewpoints, doesn't mean we are right or wrong but all I can say is that in employing this approach I have had hardly any problems with youth football!
If I was refereeing your game, from your descriptions I probably would have managed the 1st one by asking the coach to have a word with or take off the player involved. The other three I would have probably let slide. You have to remember at 11 these boys are just starting out to properly learn the game and our bound to make mistakes. It's just like you starting off in refereeing you will make mistakes and I'm sure you'd like to think that you wouldn't be treated like the Select Group would by the FA (say with being pressured into not dismissing a player) if they made the same error. If you were seen to do this in the PL it is likely you wont have a game the next week, but in your case nothing will happen due to the lack of coverage and your relative inexperience. This in my eyes is completely right, there is no way someone should punish you for refereeing with only your best intentions. Keep going mate!
Also try to empathise with the youngsters and understand that in all likelihood these actions weren't malicious. For example the dissent is only probably something they have picked up from watching local games or from the TV.
If I was refereeing your game, from your descriptions I probably would have managed the 1st one by asking the coach to have a word with or take off the player involved. The other three I would have probably let slide. You have to remember at 11 these boys are just starting out to properly learn the game and our bound to make mistakes. It's just like you starting off in refereeing you will make mistakes and I'm sure you'd like to think that you wouldn't be treated like the Select Group would by the FA (say with being pressured into not dismissing a player) if they made the same error. If you were seen to do this in the PL it is likely you wont have a game the next week, but in your case nothing will happen due to the lack of coverage and your relative inexperience. This in my eyes is completely right, there is no way someone should punish you for refereeing with only your best intentions. Keep going mate!
Also try to empathise with the youngsters and understand that in all likelihood these actions weren't malicious. For example the dissent is only probably something they have picked up from watching local games or from the TV.
It might be worth going over to the manager and give him the option: say something along the lines of: 'Look I need to do something about your number X, I'll give you two options: ONE I give him a yellow card TWO you take him off for a couple of minutes to let him cool down and where you can have a word with him'
That way the manager can have no complaints about your actions as he himself had a say in the process without interfering with your intentions to punish the player.
Harry don't worry about it. We have all had games like that. You influence the players for 70 minutes in a week and their parents, teachers and coaches get them for the rest of the time. Your chances of changing their behaviour are limited. Keep plugging away, keep doing your job and keep smiling.
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Worst piece of advice ever given is for new refs to be told to ask managers to sub players.
All it does is raise an expectation amongst clubs that this is how all referees will react. Then when they get a referee who does the job properly they get all upset that they weren't asked to sub a player.
Maybe at u8s or u9s that would be acceptable but not at u11s. At some point you have to stop doing the managers job for them.
A manager should be able to see when one of their players is crossing the line, if they aren't willing to do something about it before you have to, then that's their problem.
All it does is raise an expectation amongst clubs that this is how all referees will react. Then when they get a referee who does the job properly they get all upset that they weren't asked to sub a player.
Maybe at u8s or u9s that would be acceptable but not at u11s. At some point you have to stop doing the managers job for them.
A manager should be able to see when one of their players is crossing the line, if they aren't willing to do something about it before you have to, then that's their problem.
@Padfoot I don't wish to enter this argument again but I have one piece of information to share. Whilst working with various select group referees on an PL u14 tournament a few weeks ago it was clear that they do not subscribe to your viewpoint. I will outline a few quotes...(but wont name names)
1) 'Are there even Red/Yellow cards at this level'
2) This was said on TWO occasions: 'In the PL that would have been a red but because of their age I yellowed him'
Would you really tell one of the select group they are not doing their job properly?
Yes they gave a yellow or two but it was very clear that their approach was significantly altered, and this was at the highest level of football in this age group.
I'm not saying subbing is the way forward I am merely saying an altered approach is required. Perhaps you could enlighten us on your experience Padfoot to describe it as the 'worst piece of advice'....
1) 'Are there even Red/Yellow cards at this level'
2) This was said on TWO occasions: 'In the PL that would have been a red but because of their age I yellowed him'
Would you really tell one of the select group they are not doing their job properly?
Yes they gave a yellow or two but it was very clear that their approach was significantly altered, and this was at the highest level of football in this age group.
I'm not saying subbing is the way forward I am merely saying an altered approach is required. Perhaps you could enlighten us on your experience Padfoot to describe it as the 'worst piece of advice'....
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@HarryD, it sounds like the cautions were deserved and you obviously had a toughy to start with.
One piece of advice from my own personal experiences. Don't listen to every single moan and groan from players, especially at the U11-U12 age groups because that's when I find them to be at their worst. You are the only person who is able to deem your cautions right or wrong, one thing that if I d works with junior football is when the player says " are you blind ref" an easy response is " just shut up and play the game", the kid will huff and puff but eventually he will just drop it.
Keep soldiering on though. It does get better, I promise
One piece of advice from my own personal experiences. Don't listen to every single moan and groan from players, especially at the U11-U12 age groups because that's when I find them to be at their worst. You are the only person who is able to deem your cautions right or wrong, one thing that if I d works with junior football is when the player says " are you blind ref" an easy response is " just shut up and play the game", the kid will huff and puff but eventually he will just drop it.
Keep soldiering on though. It does get better, I promise
well there were a few on here saying how Phil Dowd was doing a p*ss poor job at Liverpool this afternoon, pl
I would love to comment my thoughts but I was watching the City game instead! We do all have our bad days though, thats for sure!!
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Yes, I will quite happily tell one of the select group they are wrong.
However, I was talking specifically about asking managers to sub players in lieu of a card.
I'm all for a more tutorial approach at younger age groups, but, if you have players that don't want to listen, and a manager who can't see where it is heading, then there is nothing wrong with shoving a card up their nose.
Why should you keep giving them chances?
Well rather you than me then...shows a slight lack of respect in my opinion...
You give them chances because they're innocent young children, in my opinion you should do everything in your power before using cards, even if this does mean liaising with the manager.
Any chance of an update on your background @Padfoot?
You give them chances because they're innocent young children, in my opinion you should do everything in your power before using cards, even if this does mean liaising with the manager.
Any chance of an update on your background @Padfoot?
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