Sneaky or clever?
Not too genius of the AR though. As a ref I would have liked him to say to the player it's still in play and avoid a lot headache for me.
Prime example of AOL v Match Control as per other thread.
Proactive refereeing here could prevent deterioration in player behaviour.
Yes it's clever from the attacker. Yes we can stand and do nothing and apply law and blame the player for being caught out or not seeing the ball had not left the field. Yes it might not make the blindest not of difference. All of these are valid points.
Similarly, the AR could quite easily communicate (he might have, we don't know) ball in play still and the game carries on at the same temperature without the obvious disgruntlement of the defending team.
yes I would.There's zero chance that I'm getting that involved at that point and ruining a legitimate and legal play by the Leipzig player. Would you start shouting that the ball was in play when a team does the little tap on the corner kick?
There's zero chance that I'm getting that involved at that point and ruining a legitimate and legal play by the Leipzig player. Would you start shouting that the ball was in play when a team does the little tap on the corner kick?
To nitpick, even if there *is* a flag from the AR, that doesn’t stop play, only the whistle does.You can debate whether the AR should coach / advise the player ... my view is that he should not as this is favouring one team above the other. A bit like 'play to the whistle', if there's been no flag from the AR then the ball is still in play.
What you can't debate is a) good alertness by the AR and b) shocking flagging by the AR ... he gives a throw in signal rather than a free kick!!
I'm sure the ref knows what is going on. However the AR needs to be doing his best to clearly communicate what is happening to everyone else inside (and outside) the stadium (especially in an unusual situation like this) and he just doesn't do this. Rather than a FK 'waggle', I see a flag going straight up, as if for a borderline ball in/out of play, and then an attacking throw in signal. This just adds to the inevitable confusionTo nitpick, even if there *is* a flag from the AR, that doesn’t stop play, only the whistle does.
On the signal, the waggle of the flag is for the R. So I’m giving him a bit of a break, as he’s undoubtedly telling the ref what is happening on the com rather than focusing on the waggle. (But the flag up itself is pretty ugly, pointing off into the stands instead of up . . .)
By saying that it is encouraging 'fair play' you are inherently suggesting that the actions of the player stopping the ball on the line was somehow 'unfair'. Whilst you do a good job of mentioning various scenarios where referees typically communicate to players, we don't normally make a point of alerting the teams to ball in/out of play, other to flag or not flag as appropriate. So the only reason to do so on this occasion would be to negate any possible advantage gained by the team who had stopped it on the line. This feels to me to be too far in the direction of taking sides ..We have flogged this horse to death in many other threads; coaching vs preventative communication. When a defender is running aggressively towards an attacker in possession in the PA, will you shout "no foul", "steady", "carful" or whatever its is you think (or not) is appropriate to say? Isn't this also coaching? After all if they give a foul away it will benefit the attacking team with a penalty. How about telling a defender who is running too close to a restart FK, will you tell them to keep 10 yards so that you don't have to card them? would a card not benefit the opponent team? There are many more preventative communication examples. Keeper releasing ball, 'backpass', encroachment at PK ... The most common one is telling a TI taker to move to where the ball went out just before he throws it. Why not let him throw and then give the ball to the other side?
This is not about coaching or rubbing one team off an opportunity, it is about encouraging fair play, not creating 'gotcha' moments and at the same time making it easier for yourself to referee the game.
Surely we do this to make like easier for ourselves more than anything else? If we say dobt hold and they do it's an easier pk to sell for example?When a defender is running aggressively towards an attacker in possession in the PA, will you shout "no foul", "steady", "carful" or whatever its is you think (or not) is appropriate to say?
Family forum!or rubbing one team off
While my reference to fair play was generic and not to this specific instance, lets look at this specific instance. Even from the short clip it is clear that the gesture is to put the ball out of play deliberately for an injury or a similar reason. The resultant restart wanted by both side and expected by football in this situation would be a TI if done as intended or a dropped ball if play is stopped when ball is still in play. Now this looks like a deception by one player to change that. You could call it clever but I would call it unfair. We have had similar situations of deception when law changes were made to stop them from happening. Slightly touching the ball at a corner kick and walking away, fainting at a PK....By saying that it is encouraging 'fair play' you are inherently suggesting that the actions of the player stopping the ball on the line was somehow 'unfair'. Whilst you do a good job of mentioning various scenarios where referees typically communicate to players, we don't normally make a point of alerting the teams to ball in/out of play, other to flag or not flag as appropriate. So the only reason to do so on this occasion would be to negate any possible advantage gained by the team who had stopped it on the line. This feels to me to be too far in the direction of taking sides ..
For me that is the secondary reason but yes it comes into it. I did mention it at the end of my post.Surely we do this to make like easier for ourselves more than anything else? If we say dobt hold and they do it's an easier pk to sell for example?
German ARs are usually not at the level of English or American ARs when it comes to the crispness of mechanics. I watch a lot of Bundesliga, and I’m constantly seeing flags in the wrong hand, moving while signaling, pumping the arm with the flag in it, etc.You can debate whether the AR should coach / advise the player ... my view is that he should not as this is favouring one team above the other. A bit like 'play to the whistle', if there's been no flag from the AR then the ball is still in play.
What you can't debate is a) good alertness by the AR and b) shocking flagging by the AR ... he gives a throw in signal rather than a free kick!!