restart of play: deception

[pankaye]

saw this on an American Facebook page: what do you think?


So here is a situation for you critical debaters:
To set the scene, State Cup, U14 Boys(Oahu vs Maui) score is 0-0 and first 10 min. And not a final or semi-finals game.
Its a corner kick.
2 offensive players at the ball, 1 defender moving in to intercept incase of the short tap.
1st tap by offensive player, but could have been an adjustment. I read 1st tap, but the 2nd offensive player announced very loudly that he was taking the corner kick.
1st offensive player and defender move towards the center of the goal box. When offensive player 2 has about 10 plus yards, he dribbles toward the goal, utilizing a trick play, after he announced he was the 1st kicker.
So, since he said he was the 1st kicker, and then double touched, ball went to the other team for the foul.
Thoughts, corrections, memes, and gifs welcome.
Game ended 9-0 in favor of the trick play team.

 

[RustyRef]

There was a brief period when professional teams were trying this, someone would move the ball ever so slightly then run off, and the second player would dribble it. Aside from the odd occasion, referees weren't having it and it soon died out.

I had it in a contrib game where the home team told me they were going to do it, and I told them that unless the ball visibly moved I wouldn't allow it. Player just scraped his studs over the ball and ran off, soon as the second player had touched it twice I gave an IDFK. They went ballistic as they claimed they had been trying it all season and whilst referees usually stopped it they allowed them to retake ...

 

[Kref]

There was a brief period when professional teams were trying this, someone would move the ball ever so slightly then run off, and the second player would dribble it. Aside from the odd occasion, referees weren't having it and it soon died out.

I had it in a contrib game where the home team told me they were going to do it, and I told them that unless the ball visibly moved I wouldn't allow it. Player just scraped his studs over the ball and ran off, soon as the second player had touched it twice I gave an IDFK. They went ballistic as they claimed they had been trying it all season and whilst referees usually stopped it they allowed them to retake ...

So you are saying if when a player is taking a corner kick if the ball has not moved out of the corner arch or doesn't visibly move the possession would be given to the opposition?

 

[RustyRef]

So you are saying if when a player is taking a corner kick if the ball has not moved out of the corner arch or doesn't visibly move the possession would be given to the opposition?

Another example of over the years IFAB / FIFA fixing something that wasn't broken. The law now says that the ball has to "clearly move", in days gone by it had to roll a full circumference (can't recall if that was the case for corners, but certainly was for some restarts). Clearly moved is vague, does brushing it with your studs and causing it to wobble mean it clearly moved?

What is clear there can only be two possible outcomes. You allow the trick to proceed as the ball was moved by the first player, or you give an IDFK. Having it retaken has no basis in law whatsoever.

 

[pankaye]

This is an also trick. I think I have seen it a couple of times on the tele. I guess what i am really interested is this. bit (my bold)

1st tap by offensive player, but could have been an adjustment. I read 1st tap, but the 2nd offensive player announced very loudly that he was taking the corner kick. 1st offensive player and defender move towards the center of the goal box. When offensive player 2 has about 10 plus yards, he dribbles toward the goal, utilizing a trick play, after he announced he was the 1st kicker. So, since he said he was the 1st kicker, and then double touched, ball went to the other team for the foul.

what action should the ref take?

 

[Kref]

Another example of over the years IFAB / FIFA fixing something that wasn't broken. The law now says that the ball has to "clearly move", in days gone by it had to roll a full circumference (can't recall if that was the case for corners, but certainly was for some restarts). Clearly moved is vague, does brushing it with your studs and causing it to wobble mean it clearly moved?

What is clear there can only be two possible outcomes. You allow the trick to proceed as the ball was moved by the first player, or you give an IDFK. Having it retaken has no basis in law whatsoever.

I swear on my course my ref development officer said it had to move outside of the arch of the corner flag area, but that might not be right. Also with what you are saying about 'clearly move' is a tad bit vague, as that could mean many things. For me I am going to interpret it as Kicked outside the arch of the corner flag as without neutral assistants that is the easiest to see and understand.

 

[Kref]

This is an also trick. I think I have seen it a couple of times on the tele. I guess what i am really interested is this. bit (my bold)




what action should the ref take?

So did he actually take the corner kick or not? Like did he kick the and another player touched it or did he dribble it himself. As within the laws of the game a player that took the corner kick cannot touch/kick the ball till another player has touched it. And since player 2 said he would take it player 1's tap wouldn't count.

 

[pankaye]

So did he actually take the corner kick or not? Like did he kick the and another player touched it or did he dribble it himself. As within the laws of the game a player that took the corner kick cannot touch/kick the ball till another player has touched it. And since player 2 said he would take it player 1's tap wouldn't count.

would you caution for unsporting behaviour?

 

[Kref]

would you caution for unsporting behaviour?

In this situation as @RustyRef as already said if the player has declared themselves as the taker of the free kick but then they precede to dribble into the box, a standard foul is given (might be caution for unsporting depending on the game) and possession to opposition. I feel like a verbal caution to the player would be better and if done later in the game then caution the player.

 

[socal lurker]

The history was that for a long time the ball was supposed to travel it’s circumference to be in play. It wasn’t enforced, especially on IFKs. so IFAB changed it to ”moves,“ which led to arguments about whether a tapped ball had moved. So IFAB added ”clearly,” which helps a bi, but not completely.

On the OP, the R could caution for USB for verbal distraction. The problem on these is the team is trying to have its cake and eat it too—if the defender runs in,they are going to claim it’s not in play. In my games, unless I see the ball clearly move but am I’m calling the double touch on the second player rather than giving the caution. “Really? We’ll, I guess you tricked me, too.”

 

[socal lurker]

In this situation as @RustyRef as already said if the player has declared themselves as the taker of the free kick but then they precede to dribble into the box, a standard foul is given (might be caution for unsporting depending on the game) and possession to opposition. I feel like a verbal caution to the player would be better and if done later in the game then caution the player.

But what are you calling if you don’t caution. If you decide the ball is in play, you’re only two choices are the caution or nothing. There is no “foul” here.

 

[Peter Grove]

I swear on my course my ref development officer said it had to move outside of the arch of the corner flag area, but that might not be right. Also with what you are saying about 'clearly move' is a tad bit vague, as that could mean many things. For me I am going to interpret it as Kicked outside the arch of the corner flag as without neutral assistants that is the easiest to see and understand.

Well, if they said that, I'd be surprised - and they'd be wrong.

There has never been anything saying the ball had to leave the corner arc to be in play.

Now, as @socal lurker says, for a long time the ball did have to travel the distance of its own circumference, which would in most cases, mean the ball would have left the corner arc by the time it was in play, but that's not the same thing.

For me I am going to interpret it as Kicked outside the arch of the corner flag

If you do that, you will not be acting in accord with the laws of the game, which say that in order to be in play, the ball:

does not need to leave the corner area

In fact, that has been stated as being the case since at least 2007, which is the first year when I can find it mentioned in the Additional Instructions & Guidelines section, as below.

 

[Russell Jones]

Another example of over the years IFAB / FIFA fixing something that wasn't broken. The law now says that the ball has to "clearly move", in days gone by it had to roll a full circumference (can't recall if that was the case for corners, but certainly was for some restarts). Clearly moved is vague, does brushing it with your studs and causing it to wobble mean it clearly moved?

What is clear there can only be two possible outcomes. You allow the trick to proceed as the ball was moved by the first player, or you give an IDFK. Having it retaken has no basis in law whatsoever.

I actually think that this tweak has helped refs rather than hindered (especially when working alone). "Clearly moved" to me means that I need to actually, confidently see the ball move from where I'm standing ... given that I'm likely to be standing between 20 and 40m away, the movement of the ball will need to be fairly significant for me to clearly see it. And if I can see it then plenty of opposition players have the opportunity to see it too!

Totally agree that a retake is out of the question on any occasion where an attacking team has tried this trick. In regards to the OP, I'd 100% be giving an IFK and a caution as I'd see it as the very definition of that rare breed, verbally distracting an opponent.

 

[Anubis]

This was a fairly common tactic years ago, sometimes the coach would even give you a heads up pre match, in a bid to avoid you incorrectly penalising them

I feel being proactive here is key, awareness, and, changing position, etc

As am typing this, I read Russell above has touched on my thinking, clearly moved is a variable, so as referee, me, I want to know its clearly moved, it is my take on this that will be gospel. Again in line with Russells point, if I can, or cant see it move, most others, will have the same view.

 

[RyantheRef]

The question here is whether or not the ball has been touched and clearly moved. If it has, then it is in play. If it has not, then it is not in play and the second person would have taken the corner and then touched it a second time. It is up to you to determine whether it has clearly moved or not.