There's something not right about the idea of a football Ref taking 'an offer'. We have enough on our plates without opening that can of worms
Referee Retention - Open Letter
- Thread starter Justylove
- Start date
Bear in mind that the match fee is published in each league's rules, and has to be as part of SCoR. Charging more than that listed fee, even if it is offered to you unsolicited, could be viewed as an act of misconduct by the referee. Only needs you to upset that team during the game and they complain to league or county saying that you demanded more than the set fee to referee, neglecting to mention that they offered it to you. Or the opposition finding out and reporting you, suggesting that in effect you have been paid a "bung". Yes, you will probably be able to defend yourself by showing the text or email offering the higher fee, but you've still not followed the rules of the competition.
As tempting as it might seem, it isn't a route I would be going down.
Someone put this screenshot on Facebook ...
As tempting as it might seem, it isn't a route I would be going down.
Someone put this screenshot on Facebook ...
Couldn't agree more. I very much doubt anyone who takes refereeing seriously would be daft enough to get involved in an auction for their services. But for many it's just a way of earning a few quid. I've been up north visiting family this weekend and got back a few hours ago. Me & my Mrs had a walk to stretch the legs after the drive and went past the local pitches. Game going on (looked u16s or so), ref wearing ankle socks and occasionally went our of the middle for a slow jog despite looking pretty fit. Hes there for the £ from what I can see and he's taking more money when offered given the chance imo.
Won't effect me but if it drives up fees that the local leagues set then good. Local Sunday League game is £30 including travel. I'm assuming the game doesn't count towards my 5-4 promotion at that level and at £30 including travel, am I really going to be encouraged to take a game? The answer is actually yes for me because I'm a football man but for most, it's unlikely. £50 and its a different story. Whether clubs could afford that is another matter.
As for the screenshot. Ridiculous behaviour
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
I think the fees will follow market forces. Almost daily emails now from County requesting referees, the ones that are taking the mick with fees, just won't get a ref - simple.
There was one recently that 'offered' £25 each for 3 back to back Under 17s - that's just not on in my opinion, but no doubt someone took it.
There was one recently that 'offered' £25 each for 3 back to back Under 17s - that's just not on in my opinion, but no doubt someone took it.
My new local grassroots league now includes fee+mileage, as opposed to simply a flat fee that I had before. For this, they require you to hand over a form detailing your mileage. And in both my games so far in this league, I've dutifully filled out the mileage to the nearest mile, multiplied it by 0.35 per mile, added the fee and handed in the request for an awkward number to the home manager after the match (for example, £28.45 this last weekend). Who has then immediately offered to just round it up to the next £5 to avoid having to fuss with change.
I don't know if this is just an accepted part of how this league works, or if I just happened to have had two particularly good games! But interested to know people's thoughts on this particular form of "offering above the stated fee"?
I don't know if this is just an accepted part of how this league works, or if I just happened to have had two particularly good games! But interested to know people's thoughts on this particular form of "offering above the stated fee"?
Have ways rounded the odd pence down, can't be bothered with the shrapnel.
Agree, I always rounded down and never asked for pence, only rounded down pounds.
Fee plus expenses at grass roots is always going to be problematic as the hassled manager or captain who is paying the referee is highly unlikely to have change. Much easier at higher levels as they have gate money and bar takings where they can easily get change.
Would also add that accepting £30 when the fee plus expenses was £28.45, on the basis that neither party have any change, is a hell of a lot different to accepting £50 when the published match fee is £35.
All my leagues offer mileage so;
Where there's mileage, then usually the club rounds it up to the next pound because they can never be arsed to find the change. That's always been the case for me from grassroots up to the higher tiers. If I go in and say "oh it's £40.25 today", they always without fail round it up to £41.
In leagues where the payment is divided between the two teams, you'll find they both round it up so you'll double-dip.
As I understand it, you're meant to report this happening etc, but it is so widespread that I honestly don't see the point, I don't think it would go anywhere if you did report it. I've gone in as a team of three on the higher tiers as an assistant, where I've said a particular fee and they'll round it up right there and then in the dressing rooms as they give out the fees because the unspoken rule is that you tell them a flat fee.
I don't personally like it, but... I genuinely think if you kick up a fuss about it, you'd be probably the only one marching for the cause.
Be interesting to see the comparison in fees across the country. In the 2 areas of England that I've reffed grass roots it's been £30 flat fee (which is roughly £25 plus mileage on average) and £25 + mileage. Its simply not enough in my opinion for adult football and all that comes with it.
If there isn't a worthwhile monetary incentive to referee adult grass roots then it's just the refs who are on promotions and those wanting to give something back etc. And as we can see clearly, post covid alot of those have chosen to give up. As I said previously (and people will disagree), am I doing a Sunday League match for a £25 fee and that only (Sunday League now doesn't count towards my promotion efforts)? The answer is possibly. For most the answer is no and for me it's a maybe, just depends on other things. But its certainly not a priority
All qualifying matches count towards the 20 games required for 5-4 promotion, so it would. They don't have to be a certain standard, it is just you are highly unlikely to be observed for 5-4 on a Sunday league match.
Thanks for the info, I didn't think that was the case. I do Sunday League because that's the lifeblood of football and I had so much fun playing Sunday League Adult football for 15 years. Its either that or kids football and I just prefer the adult stuff. I've done 2 this season (had County appointments or Women's FA Cup on other Sundays). 10-0 and 12-2!
Without trying to put a halo on my bald head, I do it because I remember what it's like to not have a game on a Sunday when I'd looked forward to it all week and Saturday stuff was more serious. The social part afterwards was always great too and without the game that doesn't happen. But its early season and the weathers good and I'm not feeling and animosity from months worth of petty abuse you get from refereeing which slowly adds up and kills your enjoyment. Come February, will I still be doing it for £25? Possibly. If its closer to £50 then definitely! Pays for my holidays. But I am very aware of lots of refs who are doing it solely for money (like my brother) and £25 ain't getting him out of bed on a Sunday morning I'm afraid. Fortunately he earns a bit more where he is and does 2 games a day. But it is solely because of money. He will never go for promotion despite being a good referee
Like you, I love Sunday League. The game count will contribute to your 20 middles, but I understand we're unlikely to be observed on those games (5-to-4). I'm not sure how much truth there is to it, but I've heard of higher level referees being deterred from Sunday League for whatever reason. I'd end up doing fewer games, but can't see myself ever turning my back on this football because it represents everything I like about the game
(except CARs!)
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
Trying to make yourself available for high level, high intensity games on Saturdays and Tuesdays acts as a natural deterrent to additionally doing Sunday League for many referees. Personally, I'm happy to occasionally do a low level youth or women's game on a Sunday but anything more increases the risk of injury.
Justylove
RefChat Addict
Yes agreed.
At higher levels with the increased intensity, plus the fact that there are midweek fixtures almost every week, it's a real challenge to do Sunday league games.
The merit table at L4 is always very tight so being either heavy legged from too many games or you are holding something back to pace yourself will quickly find you out.
Don't forget that as you go up the levels you are travelling further and having to be at games earlier. It's not beyond the realms for referees at L4 to be leaving home on a Saturday morning at 10.30am and not getting home until gone 8pm, or midweek to not be getting home from a game at midnight or later.
Also as someone working Monday to Friday and having a family, plus doing a volunteer role for the RNLI, Sunday tends to be our family day, where we'll try to schedule things that we want to do, without the interupption of football.
Personally I quite enjoy doing Sunday league games, but, I do them on my terms, when it suits me, which is typically if I don't have a game on a Saturday for any reason.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
My two County Cups this weekend are £30 each - one is U12s and one U14s - same venue. I won't be adding the £2.40 mileage!
On that basis, you're correct. I did a Women's National Reserve League middle on Sunday - that was 'only' £25 (Plus Exs) - as someone said above though, with different organisations setting the fees, bound to be inequalities I guess?
Yes, it's apparent to me (this season) shoehorning a Sunday game between Saturdays & Tuesdays is folly
Injury risk aside, two competitive games per week seems a good number to me. 'Less is More' and all that
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
As I mentioned previously, close those dates or the FA will come knocking with some Women's games for you!
Just to point out nothing wrong with the Women's games, but if you're doing Sat/Midweek/Sat with travelling, its not unreasonable to want Sundays off!
Agree, I shot up the supply league bandings after I stopped refereeing on Sundays. Think it was more habits than fitness, flipping between games with ARs to being on your own is bound to have an impact.
Did a low standard village game to help out and the following supply game I had a nightmare. Think lulled me into false sense of security.
