The Ref Stop

Reading appealing against red card

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I'd like to think their chances are very good. Unless the red was for the ghost.

Also, doesn't look to me like the attacker's actually getting to the ball before the other defender, so wasn't even DOGSO.
 
50/50 Is the defender there at the time of the foul? Seems to be arriving just after to me.
 
I'd say 90% that the defender was getting to the ball before the striker. But more than that, what it looks like to me is:

a) slight shirt tug, not enough to put a man down or even, in this case, halt his run.
b) theatrical dive. How exactly do his legs collapse? There's no contact. Nothing related to the tug.

My vote - rescind it.
 
frank_ref said:
a) slight shirt tug, not enough to put a man down or even, in this case, halt his run.
b) theatrical dive. How exactly do his legs collapse? There's no contact. Nothing related to the tug.

My vote - rescind it.
Click to expand...

a) However slight, the shirt tug is a foul - PK
b) A question of simulation or exaggeration? How he went down after the tug shouldn't, and I don't think it was, have any bearing on the card.

Rescind is the best way forward on this as i don't feel that there really was an Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity - ask yourself : If his shirt wasn't pulled, and he didn't go down, would his next touch have been a clear shot at goal?
For me the answer's 'No' because of the incoming defender.
 
I was under the impression that Holding an Opponent is a foul, if I see someone holding a shirt, an arm or whatever of an opponent I look for an advantage, if none, then it's a foul. A slight tug, and I might not even call advantage but the offender would know I saw it.

If holding an opponents shirt isn't always a foul, at what point does it become one? How do you set your limit?

I could be wrong though, I will go through the Good Book again and see which situations holding an opponent is allowed.
 
Perhaps Frank is wondering about all those shirt tugs, not to mention holding, that regularly goes on at corners, Matty, and usually goes unpunished
 
But this isn't a corner, its an attacking movement, which is 1v1 or 2v1, however you want so see it
 
Jojo

I was trying to mediate between Frank and Matty....and now look what you've done

Just to be clear, are you saying that shirt tugging is o.k. at corners
 
haywain said:
Jojo

I was trying to mediate between Frank and Matty....and now look what you've done

Just to be clear, are you saying that shirt tugging is o.k. at corners
Click to expand...

But I was just making my point on the corners situation!!

I am not. But, after Monday night with Anthony Taylor, he said how can you punish it? There are 5 players fouling each other, so what can you do? And, he said it won't stop until it's stop being coached as a tactic at corners. And, I agree with that. You can't punish 10 fouls at once.
 
surely you pick the foul that you see and give it.

what happens if five defenders punch five attackers at the same time?
 
haywain said:
surely you pick the foul that you see and give it.

what happens if five defenders punch five attackers at the same time?
Click to expand...

Well the game would be abandoned in that instance.

How can you give a foul when you see 3 or 4 fouls? There is no way you can!
 
haywain said:
Perhaps Frank is wondering about all those shirt tugs, not to mention holding, that regularly goes on at corners, Matty, and usually goes unpunished
Click to expand...

Exactly. What I'm looking for is INFRINGEMENT. There's lots of holding going on. Lots of 'touching'. Lots of different bits of the body coming together with different bits of another person's body. But not all of it is infringing.

In this case the shirt grab did nothing to slow Afobe down or impede him in any way therefore it's either NO FOUL or we'll be seeing several hundred fouls in a game. Certainly, you see worse shirt grabs at pretty much every corner kick. Plus, let's face it, the ref's not even given the penalty for the shirt grab, but for mistakenly thinking Pearce took Afobe's legs (BBC reported "Pearce clumsily bundled [Afobe] over").
 
Good, we're getting somewhere now. You can't punish ten fouls at once but you can punish five.

As for how to give a foul when you see 3 or 4 - and let's stay with holding for now. the interpretation of the lotg is pretty clear on this

'Referees are reminded to make an early intervention and to deal firmly with holding offences especially inside the penalty area at corner kicks and free kicks'

to deal with these situations:
- the referee must warn any player holding an opponent before the ball is in play
-caution the player if the holding continues before the ball is in play
-award a direct free kick or penalty kick and caution the player if it happens once the ball is in play

and if you see three or four, there's no law that says that you have to act on all four. pick one and deal with it. i'd happily argue that to do nothing is the sign of a weak referee - though weak referees would probably call it game management or something

bournemouth v liverpool
about 2 minutes in
Now, that is a shirt pull!

 
Last edited:
Blimey - I go fishing for a couple of hours and come back to this!

Frank, apologies if I upset or offended, I was talking about holding in the specific Reading incident and similar attacking movement situations when attacker has passed defender and defender grabs. In this case, the attacker is past the defender, who, beaten all ends up grabs the shirt.

Yes, there will always be physical contact in the game, and some of it is legal, some of it isn't and some of it will be missed or ignored by the referee.

In the case of corners, I do pull the players up on it if I see it happening, if more than one incident then I pick the worst if I am going to talk to the offenders, otherwise a loud and clear 'Get a room guys!' with a pointed finger is usually enough.

Once ball is in the air, then yes, it becomes a penalty or FK however, I try and judge whether it has actually impeded a player who would have got to the ball. Eg: A bit of holding at the back post when the corner is headed away before the ball reaches the near post for example. While technically a foul, it would have to be pretty obvious wrestle for me to give a penalty - usually a six of one and half dozen of the other anyway so always tough to see which way it should go.

Hope that clarifies!
 
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