today's game - u16 youth

[Kent Ref]

Yellows v whites team u16s.

Incident one:

In the first half yellow cross the ball into the penalty area and the white player tries to push him in the back. Player stays up and ball goes out of play. I award a penalty.

Away manager is furious that i gave it. I had an assistant referee who was also a qualified ref who said at half time - "it was a pen but i wouldn't have given it as i don't have the confidence." He was not on the game as a neutral so i couldn't have asked him for help with that decision. I was on the d of the penalty area and this happened 3 yards from the goal line. How much closer should i have been? My view was clear but i was told i was too far away to give it.

Incident two:

White player fouls yellow player and i give a free kick. White player then kicks yellow player while yellow player is on the ground. I'm about 8-10 yards away. I then get close to the incident (within two yards). I'm concentrating on the white player as he's getting the red one. Then in the next two or three seconds I see the same white player shove the same yellow player. Against my instinct i stand between the two players and stop them getting to each other. In all my years reffing i have never done this but today my instinct was to keep them separate. I don't know why but i did.

I then call over the captain of the white team and tell him his player has kicked and pushed so he's getting the red one.

The manager of the white team then loses his control and tells me the yellow player should also be sent off for violent behaviour.

At half time a member of the crowd tells me he is videoing the game and i should be embarrassed for missing the yellow player's alleged violence. He wasn't being rude so i must take it there is something here i missed.

In the few seconds this all happened i can honestly say i did not see the yellow player do anything wrong BUT sometimes you get a sense you may have missed something major. I was also so focused on the white player i must have missed something the other player did.

The yellow team then subbed this player straight away and the white manager told me they did that as they know the player should have been sent off.

Would you have done anything differently? Was i close enough to make the penalty award? Do you ever stop players getting to each other?

 

[Mintyref]

All reads good to me. Certainly not too far away to give the pen. Wouldn't have bothered with the skipper, just binned the player for vc. If you missed something you missed it. Don't fret about it.

 

[Ben448844]

I had a similar incident in the first game of the season for me this year. Ball trickles out for a throw in. I give it to yellow, who then gives a slight push to the white player who is stood right on the line. White player runs of from 15 yards away and slaps the yellow player around the face (laughable really). I give a red to that player and a yellow for the throw in taker for the push. Que the white manager screaming that they both should've been sent off (absolutely not the case, yellow for a little push and if norhing else would've happened I probably wouldn't have even given a yellow as it was such a little push). I got the "I'm filming this game" and your embarrassing, amongst other things which got him a trip to the car park. It's just what people say when they're frustrated, don't worry about it.

Even if the game was being filmed,who would watch two of the bottom sides in the bottom division of an amateur Sunday league lol. I got this one right and it sounds like you did too. The manager has reacted to put doubts in your mind to effect you in the rest of the game, don't let him do that. Move on

 

[one]

First incident.
There is no required minimum distance for a penalty decision to be given. Optimal distance to play is 10 to 15 meter (yards) but if you see something from further away, give the decision you think is right. It sounds like you got this one right but its one that YHTBT (you have to be there).

Send off. Again sounds like you got it right. If you don't see something you can't do anything about it. Don't let anyone (except your NAR if you have any) influence your decision. Following your instinct is not a bad thing as long as you put your own safety first.

Some other points.
- If someone tells you you should be embarrassed, to me it sounds like they were rude. They could have just said you missed something without the "you should be embarrassed"
- Coaches who question your decisions (in both cases here) must be dealt with, use the ask tell remove method.
- And one for report writing (technicality), "tries to push him" is not an offence. "Carelessly pushed him but the opponent stayed up on his feet" would be a better way to describe this.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Incident one - tries to push him in the back or does push him in the back? If you are on the D, you could be as close as 16 yards from the incident or your could be 25 yards from the incident, so from your description, it is difficult to tell.

Incident two - if white has already kicked yellow who is on the ground, why does it take long enough for yellow to get back up and white have the opportunity to push him again before you are on the scene brandishing a red card?

 

[JamesL]

Yellows v whites team u16s.

Incident one:

In the first half yellow cross the ball into the penalty area and the white player tries to push him in the back. Player stays up and ball goes out of play. I award a penalty.

Away manager is furious that i gave it. I had an assistant referee who was also a qualified ref who said at half time - "it was a pen but i wouldn't have given it as i don't have the confidence." He was not on the game as a neutral so i couldn't have asked him for help with that decision. I was on the d of the penalty area and this happened 3 yards from the goal line. How much closer should i have been? My view was clear but i was told i was too far away to give it.

Incident two:

White player fouls yellow player and i give a free kick. White player then kicks yellow player while yellow player is on the ground. I'm about 8-10 yards away. I then get close to the incident (within two yards). I'm concentrating on the white player as he's getting the red one. Then in the next two or three seconds I see the same white player shove the same yellow player. Against my instinct i stand between the two players and stop them getting to each other. In all my years reffing i have never done this but today my instinct was to keep them separate. I don't know why but i did.

I then call over the captain of the white team and tell him his player has kicked and pushed so he's getting the red one.

The manager of the white team then loses his control and tells me the yellow player should also be sent off for violent behaviour.

At half time a member of the crowd tells me he is videoing the game and i should be embarrassed for missing the yellow player's alleged violence. He wasn't being rude so i must take it there is something here i missed.

In the few seconds this all happened i can honestly say i did not see the yellow player do anything wrong BUT sometimes you get a sense you may have missed something major. I was also so focused on the white player i must have missed something the other player did.

The yellow team then subbed this player straight away and the white manager told me they did that as they know the player should have been sent off.

Would you have done anything differently? Was i close enough to make the penalty award? Do you ever stop players getting to each other?

Not sure why you brought the captain in to tell him you are sending off the player... to me this is inviting more to deal with. Isolate the offending player. Tell him he is being sent off and why. Show the red card. Anybody wants to get involved after then deal with it.
Agree with Brian regards prevention of further misconduct. Bang on the whistle. Very loud. Get in there and carry out the above.

 

[santa sangria]

Yes, if you have to get in between players, ot find yourself between players, use that whistle. Blast and multiblast and more. That’s what it’s for.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Tries to push him in the back? Well did he succeed? cos if he did...pk
if he did not, then nothing to see here
cant penalise someone for not pushing someone in the back
unless am missing something

 

[Kent Ref]

Thank you for your replies.

My wording was a little poor. The player did push him but failed to knock him over. That's what i mean when i said he tried to push him.

I spent a while trying to isolate the white player and this happened in the interim time. It was all over in 15 - 30 seconds but that time went in milliseconds, in my mind.

I'd love to see the video to see what i missed but until i'm in the football league that's not going to happen.

As i get closer to 60 it's getting harder to be in the right place every time so that's why i asked about the distance from incident.

 

[IslandReferee]

Id say you were pot on in my mind in your handling of the game and also the responses.

 

[spuddy1878]

Yellows v whites team u16s.

Incident one:

In the first half yellow cross the ball into the penalty area and the white player tries to push him in the back. Player stays up and ball goes out of play. I award a penalty.

Away manager is furious that i gave it. I had an assistant referee who was also a qualified ref who said at half time - "it was a pen but i wouldn't have given it as i don't have the confidence." He was not on the game as a neutral so i couldn't have asked him for help with that decision. I was on the d of the penalty area and this happened 3 yards from the goal line. How much closer should i have been? My view was clear but i was told i was too far away to give it.

So you were roughly 20 yards away ?

The person telling you you should have been closer and you were wrong was im guessing 50 yards away.

Case closed.

 

[Tealeaf]

At half time a member of the crowd tells me he is videoing the game and i should be embarrassed for missing the yellow player's alleged violence.

You should be embarrassed? Ok, whatever. It's a youth game, and being videoed? Hmmm. Who needs fireworks next weekend with someone walking into a minefield like that?

 

[spuddy1878]

Are people legally allowed to video a game at youth level ?

 

[lincs22]

Are people legally allowed to video a game at youth level ?

Depends......


As referee, it is nothing to do with you. If anybody says anything, simply refer them to contact their CFA. You have no powers to act on this.

But it depends on what the video is to be used for, who is taking it, do they have permission of the landlord of the venue, is their any safeguarding issues that needed to be addressed, has a proper risk assessment been undertaken, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Abeverley]

Depends......


As referee, it is nothing to do with you. If anybody says anything, simply refer them to contact their CFA. You have no powers to act on this.

But it depends on what the video is to be used for, who is taking it, do they have permission of the landlord of the venue, is their any safeguarding issues that needed to be addressed, has a proper risk assessment been undertaken, etc, etc, etc.

Massive safeguarding issue posting on line.
One of the kids might be under child protection etc etc. Video of the child shouldn’t be posted online and people to be able to identify children from it without permission.
In public there’s very little you can do, and as a referee there’s nothing in our powers to control this.
We know that we can’t film etc.

 

[Ben448844]

At public facilities you can't do anything. You can ask the person to stop because alot of those present aren't happy about it but you can't do anything to stop it. This was covered at length in the safeguarding course that I did.

 

[Kes]

At public facilities you can't do anything. You can ask the person to stop because alot of those present aren't happy about it but you can't do anything to stop it. This was covered at length in the safeguarding course that I did.

And a good thing it is too.

Absolutely nothing wrong with a parent wanting to get some film of their son/daughter playing football for later memoirs and personal enjoyment.

It's what they choose to actually do with that film afterwards that's important in terms of the law.

 

[Ben448844]

And a good thing it is too.

Absolutely nothing wrong with a parent wanting to get some film of their son/daughter playing football for later memoirs and personal enjoyment.

It's what they choose to actually do with that film afterwards that's important in terms of the law.

Agreed. I've had this issue twice. Once during an OA game where after the match the parents of one of their players politely expressed unhappiness regarding the other team filming the game. I explained to them that they were not doing anything illegal and I don't have the power to stop them. The manager was a decent chap so I accompanied the parent (their lad was 16/17) and they asked why the match was being filmed and received the explanation that they film every game and put it on YouTube. Even gave the parents details of how to find it lol. No issue, everyone happy.

At an under 14s game last year, the only kids game of the season I did, away team lose to a last minute goal. After the game manager wants the footage deleted (never mentioned during or before the match that he had an issue with the game being filmed). It was a public park so I explained that there was nothing we could do bit I would advise those that were filming to make people aware of it before the match starts just to prevent this type of incident (not that they have to of course). The situation calmed down, it was just sour grapes really.