The Ref Stop

Potentially racist comment - How to handle it

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QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
Level 4 Referee
Game on the weekend, blue v yellow. Yellow had a corner and just before this was taken I could hear the manager shouting 'Ref! Ref! He can't say that!'. The corner was taken, chance missed and the manager kept on at me so clearly I'd missed something so I jogged over to him. He then said that one of the blue players shouted 'Somebody mark the black kid'. As I'm chatting to the manager, the blue player in question wanders over, is incredibly apologetic and says 'I couldn't see the number on his back and was trying to get someone to mark him. It was a slip of the tongue.' The manager settled down, I warned the blue player and the yellow player who the comment was aimed at didn't bat an eyelid (although I don't know whether he was even aware of the comment).

Would you have been happy to accept the apology or do you feel like I should have taken this more seriously? One side of the coin I'm thinking it wasn't an abusive comment etc, however it's a pretty stupid/ignorant comment to make so on the other side of the coin I'm thinking does it matter if it's a slip of the tongue and not intended to be abusive?
 
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YHTBT but is sounds like PC gone mad. I wont try to be PC here. If it wasn't intended as insult and said in isolation to distinguish a player, I see no reason to worry about it unless the opponent is genuinely offended. I don't see why he should be as black people, like any other race, are proud of their race and colour. No different to saying "mark that African kid, or that tall kid when identifying a person. There are some racial descriptive words which are offensive and shouldn't be used in any context. They have other connotation like a couple of N words or, but as far as i am concerned, 'black' is not one of them as long as no offence is intended and not used deliberately in a derogatory way.

You have to be able to read genuine reactions to judge the situation. If a person is offended by a comment, the reaction is generally not "he can't say that". It's disgust, anger or retaliation. "He can't say that" is more like, I am not offended but I want him to be in trouble.
 
Referring to somebody as black isn't derogatory (though it can be) - but I can appreciate the sensitivity in using it as the main descriptor. I think you handled it well - no further action.


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I see no reason to worry about it unless the opponent is genuinely offended

You have to be able to read genuine reactions to judge the situation. If a person is offended by a comment, the reaction is generally not "he can't say that". It's disgust, anger or retaliation. "He can't say that" is more like, I am not offended but I want him to be in trouble.
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but how do you weigh that up against the fact that a lot of players will carry on like a pork chop over absolutely anything to try to get an opponent sent off, or to start something?

I don't think you should be using opponent's reactions to determine whether or not you should pull the red card out.... (also, that strikes me as the sort of thing that contributes to the toxic culture of the sport, as you're rewarding teams that act badly and effectively punishing the teams that just get on with it without making a fuss)
 
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The race card gets used just as frequently as genuine racist behaviour unfortunately. It's a minefield for us refs. I get sick of claims and counter claims, particularly in youth football. As yet, i've not encountered anything i could act upon
 
If someone has made an allegation of racism you are duty bound to report it, whether you heard it or not.

Even if you dont agree/believe it was an act of racism.
 
Yeah, I'm in agreement with Sheff on this one. I don't see that as racism at all.

I also agree with James though, report it just to cover the bases. Common sense should prevail really, but I can appreciate it's not an issue you'd want to be caught up in at all.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Referring to somebody as black isn't derogatory (though it can be) - but I can appreciate the sensitivity in using it as the main descriptor. I think you handled it well - no further action.



but how do you weigh that up against the fact that a lot of players will carry on like a pork chop over absolutely anything to try to get an opponent sent off, or to start something?

I don't think you should be using opponent's reactions to determine whether or not you should pull the red card out.... (also, that strikes me as the sort of thing that contributes to the toxic culture of the sport, as you're rewarding teams that act badly and effectively punishing the teams that just get on with it without making a fuss)
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That's why you have to be good at reading reactions. For me it is usually not offensive if no one is offended. That means you have to look at reactions, not just opponents, everyone (including yourself). Appealing for something or carrying on about it doesn't mean they are offended. Not too different to being able to judge simulation vs real foul or injury.

Judging OFFINABUS is an acquired skill. Its not something you can easily teach or write rules about. That's why I don't like the 'swear chart' for OFFINABUS. Its taught to young referees in a black and white way which leads to unjustified red cards or unpunished offences.
 
In my experience black people are more offended by people skirting round the houses to trying to avoid using the term black. No different to saying mark the lad in the orange boots in this context. If he's calling him a black .... then it's a different matter entirely.

If the manager comes up to you and says he's going to make a formal accusation of racism then by all means offer your observations to this non-event to your County FA. Takes a lot of white guilt to even consider this as a potentially racist allegation.
 
I have a Gambian son in law who’s pretty tight! He’s not offended if I call him the only Black Jew I know! He calls me all sorts too. Nothing in it, I love him to bits...Some people these days go out of their way to be offended about just about anything!
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I have a Gambian son in law who’s pretty tight! He’s not offended if I call him the only Black Jew I know! He calls me all sorts too. Nothing in it, I love him to bits...Some people these days go out of their way to be offended about just about anything!
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Is it Gambia or The Gambia? Don't want to offend!

People love to be offended on behalf of someone else.
 
I'm not gonna report that 'such & such said such & such, reported by such & such.
Most of it is total nonsense in my experience so far, just like all the other noise projected towards the referee
In a desperate attempt not to be racist, my dad's generation still use the term 'coloured', when 'black' is now ticket in contradiction to the OP
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I have a Gambian son in law who’s pretty tight! He’s not offended if I call him the only Black Jew I know! He calls me all sorts too. Nothing in it, I love him to bits...Some people these days go out of their way to be offended about just about anything!
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perhaps a jew might be offended if you post that sort of thing?
 
My apologies if anyone was offended by my post earlier. I’m not the most PC of blokes and haven’t really got a nasty bone in my body. You can take and comment / humerus (true) comment and dissect it and someone can be upset... no offence taken I hope! :)
 
Kes said:
This ^^^^^

All day long.

Referring to a black person as "black" isn't racist.

The manager moaning about it shows his ignorance above all else. :cool:
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As much as by definition its not, we are in a culture in time where its seen to be
Dangerous ground for a referee to shout into a crowd of players, "come here, yes you, the black one"

Used in that sense, its a description and nothing to do with being superior, but I think you would be insane to even try it
 
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