How are you going to administer the appropriate cards if you haven't seen what's happened?
But yeah in that case, I guess you'd restart with a dropped ball from where the ball was, given that you're not blowing up for a foul.
If you're giving cards, you cannot restart with a dropped ball.
If you see the tail end of the fight, but miss the start (which is suggested above, but not made 100% clear), and thus send off a couple of players, you must restart as per the most serious offence (Law 5, pg 62). As, based on what you saw, the sanction is identical, the nature of the offence identical, it comes down to tactical. So, if this takes place outside one penalty area, the restart (DFK) would, de facto, go to the attacking team.
In that case, make sure that you see something more serious done by the attacker that gives you reason to give a DFK to the defender...I don't think it would go down well if I gave a penalty for a fight that may have been instigated by the attacker!
I don't agree. The section of the law you mention is for offences occurring simultaneously. Unless what you see are a number of separate players who all deliver their punches (or pushes, kicks etc) at precisely the same moment in time, these are not simultaneous offences. Unless something extremely unusual happens, a fight would normally involve sequential events.If you're giving cards, you cannot restart with a dropped ball.
If you see the tail end of the fight, but miss the start (which is suggested above, but not made 100% clear), and thus send off a couple of players, you must restart as per the most serious offence (Law 5, pg 62). As, based on what you saw, the sanction is identical, the nature of the offence identical, it comes down to tactical. So, if this takes place outside one penalty area, the restart (DFK) would, de facto, go to the attacking team.
Yes -- if you (or your NARs, or fourth official) see the start of the incident, it'll be clear what happened first.I don't agree. The section of the law you mention is for offences occurring simultaneously. Unless what you see are a number of separate players who all deliver their punches (or pushes, kicks etc) at precisely the same moment in time, these are not simultaneous offences. Unless something extremely unusual happens, a fight would normally involve sequential events.
So can a goal kick be. Guess you shouldn't ask their help on those either.Huge game changers, which make them all the same fruit to me
So can a goal kick be. Guess you shouldn't ask their help on those either.Huge game changers, which make them all the same fruit to me
What Alex is saying is assuming simultaneous offences without even seeing them which is not the same as what you are saying.Agree with Alex. I think that when you turn around, see players already fighting and they both commit punching each other, I don't think the spirit of the law is to worry about which punch you did see 1/10th second before the other. I think considering them simultaneous at this point is fine.
Consider if this is in the penalty area and you turn around to see the keeper's punch a moment beforehand, but you're certain this wasn't the first one. Is it really fair to put down a PK here?
I believe simultaneous offences can apply here, so drop ball.
Alternatively, go for the 'least influential' option - free kick to the defence.
Of course that can very easily backfire, if the other team takes offence or - heaven forbid - they manage to score off that play!
andpunishes the more serious offence, in terms of sanction, restart, physicals severity and tactical impact, when more than one offence occurs at the same time
Given a PK is more serious than a DFK and least influence basically means least impact.Restart – a direct free kick offence is more serious than an indirect free kick offence
-Tactical impact – an offence which stops an opponent’s attack is more important than one which ends a player’s own team attack
Didn't quite understand what I was going for -- I may not have been as clear as I'd hoped.@AlexF in response to your last two posts (if I have understood them correctly).
You can give cards and start with a dropped ball if the cards were for incident after you stopped play and you did not see any punishable offence before you stopped play. You can not punish an act you did not see, be it a sanction or restart (simultaneous or not).
I turned to look over my shoulder and saw Blue #2 and Red #3 in a fist-fight with each other.
I am stopping play because of possibility of VC that I don’t want to miss for match control reasons. This could go something like, I hear commotion from the crowed and behind me, and I have a quick look over my shoulder and see players gathered in what looks like a confrontation. I then blow my whistle immediately to stop play and witness deal with the incident. But I have not seen anything warranting a free kick from the time I turned around and the time I stopped play.I do have a question for you though:
In your case above, what are you stopping play for if you're going to restart with a dropped ball? An injury on the field? Something else?
If you're stopping play because of the fight, then you must restart with a free kick of some variety. You can no longer start with a dropped ball, because you're stopping because of offence.
Now, again, if you've stopped for an injury, then turn around and see a full-fledged fist-fight, that is, of course, a totally different case, and you're restarting based on what you stopped play for.
I'm not convinced that this option will fly at all under the LotG. But... *shrug*I am stopping play because of possibility of VC that I don’t want to miss for match control reasons. This could go something like, I hear commotion from the crowed and behind me, and I have a quick look over my shoulder and see players gathered in what looks like a confrontation. I then blow my whistle immediately to stop play and witness deal with the incident. But I have not seen anything warranting a free kick from the time I turned around and the time I stopped play.
What happens after I stopped play may or may not need sanctioning and it’s irrelevant to the restart. What happened before I turned around is irrelevant to restart because I haven’t seen it.
If I stop play when the ball is in play the only options for restart are, DFK, IFK, PK and dropped ball. Because I can’t give a DFK, IFK or PK due to not seeing anything, the only option left is a dropped ball as per the definition of dropped ball in law 8.
True -- having said that, the following line would then clarify as to what's actually happening. Introduction is merely that, setting the stage, quick identification of those involved.One last bit of semantics. The law never refers to a ‘fight’ for free kicks. You need to dissect the generic term to identifiable acts like striking, kicking etc. which are punishable by free kicks. If you haven’t seen any of those acts, then as far as you are concerned, the never was a ‘fight’.