A&H

Handball has to be deliberate

Big Cat

Big Cat

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Level 4 Referee
Why did Chris Foy state, "it has to be deliberate" when offering his view of the handball penalty shout (Liverpool v Newcastle; BT Sport))? This sort of technical error bothers me as it cements this view in the minds of m(b)illions of viewers; and makes the job at grass roots more difficult
 
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Its not a technical error. Its a technical insight. Handball does have to be deliberate for it to be an offence. What constitutes 'deliberate' from a laws of the game view point is a whole lot of different debate.
 
Or should I just accept that it's semantics?

Search the IFAB PDF version of the book and you won't find the word 'intentional' or 'deliberate' regarding handball or any other offence for that matter
 
So that last statement was completely wrong! haha, but with regards to handball, it just states that the ref should take into account distance ball has traveled and whether the ball moves towards the hand or vice versa
 
Paul Sangster said:
So that last statement was completely wrong! haha, but with regards to handball, it just states that the ref should take into account distance ball has traveled and whether the ball moves towards the hand or vice versa
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Correct.
Now we are getting into the "whole lot of different debate" :)

Its is a consideration give to you (the referee) by IFAB. But at the end of the day once you have considered it, it comes down to your opinion.
 
99% of handballs penalised in the PL are not offences......they are simply given because players & media expect them to be given so the officials, in the interests of retaining their jobs, give them.

Basically, if the hand/arm is already in a position when the ball is kicked, and the ball then strikes to hand/arm which hasn't moved, it is not a handball offence.
Imagine a scenario where player has jumped using their arms for momentum, then realising the ball after being kicked, is going to strike their arm, attemprs to get the arm out of the way but in doing so moves it into the path of the ball........technically, they have committed an offence......whereas had they just left their arm where it was, it would be no offence. Situation entirely caused by referees who give handball offences just because players expect it, rather than what has actually happened.
 
And remember, the requirement for it to be a deliberate act by the player is the primary and overriding consideration.

All the other factors that "must be considered" in regards to movement of the hand, distance from the ball, position of the hand etc are only secondary considerations, to be used in helping the referee to decide on the primary fact of whether the handing was deliberate or not.
 
There was one in the Liverpool game, never deliberate hand ball in the memory of man and the Idiot Klopster the Clown was dancing up the touchline like a scalded cat!! Complete and utter c0ckwomble!!
 
Due to something that got said on the course, i had it firmly in my mind that the word 'deliberate' was not in the law. I've given quite a few handball PK's. Thankfully, they've been reasonably justified despite my ignorance. Agreed that any handballs in the Liverpool match were completely unavoidable
 
Padfoot said:
Basically, if the hand/arm is already in a position when the ball is kicked, and the ball then strikes to hand/arm which hasn't moved, it is not a handball offence.
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Unless the player has more than enough time to move his hand/arm out of the way and simply chooses not to. Which is, I accept, only the case on a "handful" :rolleyes: of occasions
 
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Russell Jones said:
Unless the player has more than enough time to move his hand/arm out of the way and simply chooses not to. Which is, I accept, only the case on a "handful" :rolleyes: of occasions
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Or unless the player has deliberately made himself bigger using his hands (e.g. in a wall for a free kick).
 
You'll hear a lot of people (especially pundits) talk about 'intentional' handball but it appears nowhere in the LOTG as it is impossible to judge a player's intentions. We can only determine if a player's action was deliberate
 
I sometimes drop my furrowed head into my hands watching games and professionally paid players are beside themselves in begging for a decision for handball. They are pathetic some of them, desperate. I get it when fans rant and rave about it but players should really know better. 90%+ of hand balls are clearly not deliberate. Its tante amount to gamesmanship / cheating. The ones that surround a ref when the ref says no, want lining up and cautioning!! Pundits don't help too, most of them are failed footballers anyway!!
 
If, in the opinion of the referee, the hand contact with the ball was deliberate - then it's handball. If the ref reckons it wasn't - then it wasn't.

That's about as complicated as it gets. :cool:
 
On of my most blatant ones was a full length dive and tip around the post by a defender, it deserved a round of applause as well as his red card, absolute cracking save!! One for the 'cameraman' as they say!!
 
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