Referees responsibility
- Thread starter SM
- Start date
Nah! I've checked Law 5 and there's nothing there that suggests that to be the case
My money is on the guy who marks up the pitch
Having said that, it would make a great exam question if there was a g.c.s.e. in refereeing
micky2001
Well-Known Member
I'd change it to say
It is the referees responsibility to try and keep the right
If one player is hell bent on flying in tackles and being mouthy then he deserves to be sanctioned and if he deserves a red then so be it. But if you fail to punish him and the other team become rash in their tackles due to frustration then I feel the referee hasn't kept correct control.
Richthekeeper
Active Member
i think the operative word is "try". no matter how much we "try" to keep the players on the pitch (and that's avoiding either injury or dismissal), we can't prevent every possible scenario occurring.
i do like the statement, although it can be interpreted in various ways depending on how you prefer to handle things.
i do like the statement, although it can be interpreted in various ways depending on how you prefer to handle things.
Justylove
RefChat Addict
I thought it was our responsibility to enforce the Laws of The Game?
If players are stupid enough to do things that necessitate you sending them off, then that's their fault.
The issue I have with going in with an attitude of 'let's try to keep the players on the park' is that it can lead to inconsistency in your application of the laws and cause you problems.
Example - player commits a foul that you think is excessive force, but you decide to only go for the yellow. If you've already given a yellow previously for a foul to any other player, then you will get a comparison as to 'how is that only a yellow, compared to the other one you gave out?" If it's the first yellow you're giving then, you open yourself up to other similar tackles flying in that you can only punish with a yellow. You then open yourself up to losing control of the game and/or someone getting seriously hurt.
Likewise with things like dissent/OFFINABUS, once you've drawn your line in the sand, then that's the benchmark for consistency you need to stick to. If you get called a 'f***ing c**t' by a player and decide 'I'm going to try to keep him on the pitch' so only issue a yellow, don't complain if you get called the same by another player, when that happens what are you going to do?
As referees, we don't send players off for no reason, we send them off when we interpret that their actions break the laws of the game, either in one incident (straight red), or in two (2 yellows).
My points are referring to open age football, where I think the focus is more on enforcement of the laws, however I can see in junior football, especially at the youngest ages, there needs to be more emphasis on coaching from the refs, rather than just enforcement.
If players are stupid enough to do things that necessitate you sending them off, then that's their fault.
The issue I have with going in with an attitude of 'let's try to keep the players on the park' is that it can lead to inconsistency in your application of the laws and cause you problems.
Example - player commits a foul that you think is excessive force, but you decide to only go for the yellow. If you've already given a yellow previously for a foul to any other player, then you will get a comparison as to 'how is that only a yellow, compared to the other one you gave out?" If it's the first yellow you're giving then, you open yourself up to other similar tackles flying in that you can only punish with a yellow. You then open yourself up to losing control of the game and/or someone getting seriously hurt.
Likewise with things like dissent/OFFINABUS, once you've drawn your line in the sand, then that's the benchmark for consistency you need to stick to. If you get called a 'f***ing c**t' by a player and decide 'I'm going to try to keep him on the pitch' so only issue a yellow, don't complain if you get called the same by another player, when that happens what are you going to do?
As referees, we don't send players off for no reason, we send them off when we interpret that their actions break the laws of the game, either in one incident (straight red), or in two (2 yellows).
My points are referring to open age football, where I think the focus is more on enforcement of the laws, however I can see in junior football, especially at the youngest ages, there needs to be more emphasis on coaching from the refs, rather than just enforcement.
Richthekeeper
Active Member
i guess this opens up a debate. if a player called me a f*****g c**t, i would have to send him off. however here is my line of thinking...
why would a player call me a f****g c**t? what have i done to deserve that? could i have communicated better in the moments leading up to that incident? was my positioning and decision making sufficient enough?
if i'm proactive in dealing with situations before they escalate then i am *trying* to keep all the players on the pitch, am i not?
why would a player call me a f****g c**t? what have i done to deserve that? could i have communicated better in the moments leading up to that incident? was my positioning and decision making sufficient enough?
if i'm proactive in dealing with situations before they escalate then i am *trying* to keep all the players on the pitch, am i not?
if you're proactive in dealing with situations before they escalate then you are trying to be the best referee that you can be. If that results in less sendings off, all the better
Richthekeeper
Active Member
my point exactly. hallelujah, we agree on something.
mind you, even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day...
mind you, even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day...
SM
The avuncular one
My thinking went along the lines of - it is my responsibility to try, it is also my responsibility to ensure a safe (as far as i can), fair (shouldn't be a problem) and entertaining (for all concerned if possible) game.
But there is a ghost in the machine in that lot.
I like proactive rather than reactive. Just a shame I can't see into the future and referee minority report style!
But there is a ghost in the machine in that lot.
I like proactive rather than reactive. Just a shame I can't see into the future and referee minority report style!
Justylove
RefChat Addict
I don't think any ref is going out with the mindset of 'how many players can I send off today?'
However it begs the question, "is a yellow card always a yellow card?" Do you err on the side of leniency if its going to be a second yellow for a player, I.e if he wasn't on a card, you would yellow him, but because he is already on one you go for a 'final warning' as opposed to a second yellow?
There are some times where the law is absolute - outfield player hand balls on the line to stop a goal, its a red for DOGSO, it doesn't matter whether it was a reflex action, he's your twin brother, best mate or whatever, the law is absolute and as a referee we have to apply the LOTG in an even handed manner manner.
You can manage certain things proactively. Last weekend I had the striker of one of the teams who was not getting any service at all and he was clearly getting frustrated to the point that after yet another hopeful punt over his head that he chased into the corner to no avail, he turned to his team mate and shouted "that's F***ing S***, how about you give me a f***ing chance instead of just f***ing lumping it forward, for f***s sakes?" Now I'm normally fairly easygoing to a bit of language, especially when a player has made an error, or missed a chance, but having that shouted a good 50 yards across the pitch is not something I'm going to let go. I had a word with him, expressing that I knew he was frustrated, but he needs to keep the language down, I also pointed out to him that there was a little girl out with her dad playing close by (public playing field). He immediately apologised and I heard him mutter a few choice words after he fluffed a chance later in the game, but had nothing more from him in that manner.
However, after I'd had the word with him, had he continued to shout like that to his team mates, I'd have take the stepped approach and gone for the yellow and had he then continued to do it, then he'd have got a second yellow. My point, sometimes you can only do so much and the player themselves has to take responsibility for their actions. It's not my job to make excuses for their behaviour, here in hampshire all leagues are under the respect banner and most teams have some form of expectation of the behaviour of their players. If the players choose to ignore a warning or do something completely stupid the they need to accept the consequences.
However it begs the question, "is a yellow card always a yellow card?" Do you err on the side of leniency if its going to be a second yellow for a player, I.e if he wasn't on a card, you would yellow him, but because he is already on one you go for a 'final warning' as opposed to a second yellow?
There are some times where the law is absolute - outfield player hand balls on the line to stop a goal, its a red for DOGSO, it doesn't matter whether it was a reflex action, he's your twin brother, best mate or whatever, the law is absolute and as a referee we have to apply the LOTG in an even handed manner manner.
You can manage certain things proactively. Last weekend I had the striker of one of the teams who was not getting any service at all and he was clearly getting frustrated to the point that after yet another hopeful punt over his head that he chased into the corner to no avail, he turned to his team mate and shouted "that's F***ing S***, how about you give me a f***ing chance instead of just f***ing lumping it forward, for f***s sakes?" Now I'm normally fairly easygoing to a bit of language, especially when a player has made an error, or missed a chance, but having that shouted a good 50 yards across the pitch is not something I'm going to let go. I had a word with him, expressing that I knew he was frustrated, but he needs to keep the language down, I also pointed out to him that there was a little girl out with her dad playing close by (public playing field). He immediately apologised and I heard him mutter a few choice words after he fluffed a chance later in the game, but had nothing more from him in that manner.
However, after I'd had the word with him, had he continued to shout like that to his team mates, I'd have take the stepped approach and gone for the yellow and had he then continued to do it, then he'd have got a second yellow. My point, sometimes you can only do so much and the player themselves has to take responsibility for their actions. It's not my job to make excuses for their behaviour, here in hampshire all leagues are under the respect banner and most teams have some form of expectation of the behaviour of their players. If the players choose to ignore a warning or do something completely stupid the they need to accept the consequences.
Justylove
RefChat Addict
I'm sending you off now, as in the 75th minute you are going to headbutt the opposing number 3. Mind you in so e of the leagues I ref in, the player would probably walk up and nut him anyway, after all may as well get sent off for doing something meaningful.
I wouldn't even think of my own performance here because more often than not the players who call you this are little
'S and have no rational for calling you this, they only do it because they either feel that they can or they are looking for someone to blame for their own mistakes!Richthekeeper
Active Member
in my professional life, it's uncceptable to place the blame for a mistake squarely at someone else's door. the same applies with referees and players.
i agree that it might often be the player's fault that he's done something stupid and unprovoked (or that the laws dictate a mandatory sanction such as DOGSO). however, i do not accept that any referee can just dismiss the idea that they could have handled the game better in order to minimise those situations
HullRef i reflect on my own performance after every game, do you not do the same?
i agree that it might often be the player's fault that he's done something stupid and unprovoked (or that the laws dictate a mandatory sanction such as DOGSO). however, i do not accept that any referee can just dismiss the idea that they could have handled the game better in order to minimise those situations
HullRef i reflect on my own performance after every game, do you not do the same?
It must be broken o'clock again, Rich 
I try to remind myself that age does play a part in our responses to situations and the position that we take in forum discussions, 14, 28 and 56 (if we wait til July) in the case of Hull, thee and me, which does have a rather wonderful symmetry about it.
I must admit that I do worry about the footballing education to date of a 14 year old whose view of players appears to be so negative and so cynical, at least on this site
I try to remind myself that age does play a part in our responses to situations and the position that we take in forum discussions, 14, 28 and 56 (if we wait til July) in the case of Hull, thee and me, which does have a rather wonderful symmetry about it.
I must admit that I do worry about the footballing education to date of a 14 year old whose view of players appears to be so negative and so cynical, at least on this site
Richthekeeper
Active Member
i'll be 29 in july i'm afraid
Richthekeeper
Active Member
nope, 29 on the 15th of july
It must be broken o'clock again, Rich
I try to remind myself that age does play a part in our responses to situations and the position that we take in forum discussions, 14, 28 and 56 (if we wait til July) in the case of Hull, thee and me, which does have a rather wonderful symmetry about it.
I must admit that I do worry about the footballing education to date of a 14 year old whose view of players appears to be so negative and so cynical, at least on this site
Nope I'd be 15 in July
But only by a month.The only reason I am quite cynical is that I have had some bad 1st hand experiences with players but I'm not as mean as I come across
@Richthekeeper of course I reflect on my performance after each and every match but not necessarily due to a player sent off for OFFINABUS. The reason why is that in any sport that I have ever played, I can honestly say that I have never sworn at or challenged a ref in any other manner than a respectful one. I see no need for it no matter how badly I have done. But that's just my oppinion.