Ref course

[Ciley Myrus]

I think his subsequent posts have disproved that. He really does mean they should be celebrities and used for the promotion of refereeing whether they want to be used as one or not

Its easy to say they don't want to be because we have not asked them.. equally easy to say they might want to be because nobody has asked them!!
Was it not Rennie who went as far as to get an agent? he certainly wanted the limelight !!
plenty top flight ex refs cant wait to get on the after dinner speaker circuit either so, shyness can be ruled out, writing books, being a panellist, pundit, newspaper colums, the lot.
The Olivers would be fine on This Morning or Parkinson.

 

[Ben448844]

They are not a sportsman, actor, singer, celebrity, etc., they are an employee of a sporting organisation. Why should they have to endure the abuse? Why should they sell themselves?

And I'll take you back to my second question which you conveniently ignored...Has anyone asked them if they want to be "public figures"?

I'll pick up on @RustyRef point as well... you're over selling the possibilities for a new recruit. Do you see players signing up to play because someone tells them they could play at Wembley in the FA Cup Final? They sign up because they enjoy it. People rarely become referees because they enjoy it.

At no point have I said that they should have to sell themselves. I clearly elude to the fact that they should become public figures "if they want to" (Mon 8.19pm). I couldn't have been clearer on that point at I trust that I've answered your '2nd question' with that too.

I'm promoting personal choice, something which is currently not allowed with reference to social media, interviews etc.

Kids play football because they enjoy it agreed. They also see professionals as role models. They aspire to be like them, dream to be like them and they are interested in them and their lives. It's nothing to do with over selling, its about inspiration and the bigger picture of humanising referees and allowing them to be mainstream. Allowing them to be whatever and whoever they want to be with a view of making the profession more attractive. Bringing me on to the main point that numbers are reducing and I'm offering opinion and reasoning as to why and how to attempt to reverse the trend.

To revert to my previous and I feel most pertinent point. Referees are viewed in the negative and the main focus should be on altering that perception using modern methods.

 

[Ben448844]

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I think his subsequent posts have disproved that. He really does mean they should be celebrities and used for the promotion of refereeing whether they want to be used as one or not

As previously stated, to say that I feel that they should be used as celebrities whether they like it or not is the complete opposite of what I said previously, which you've ignored. I am an advocate of personal choice and attempting to promote refereeing via the referees themselves. Something which is actively opposed by current policy

 

[Ciley Myrus]

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As previously stated, to say that I feel that they should be used as celebrities whether they like it or not is the complete opposite of what I said previously, which you've ignored. I am an advocate of personal choice and attempting to promote refereeing via the referees themselves. Something which is actively opposed by current policy

If you move into the public eye, you become a celebrity by default.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

At no point have I said that they should have to sell themselves. I clearly elude to the fact that they should become public figures "if they want to" (Mon 8.19pm). I couldn't have been clearer on that point at I trust that I've answered your '2nd question' with that too.

I'm promoting personal choice, something which is currently not allowed with reference to social media, interviews etc.

Professional referees...cannot sell themselves. Your words at 1:07 on Tuesday. You have suggested they sell themselves.

Back to your point on promoting personal choice... Do you have an employment contract? Do you have a code of conduct as part of your employment? Have you read them?

I don't know about yours but mine provides strong advice on social media use. I suspect that PGMOL contracts have such things as well. Therefore it is part of their terms of employment that they can't/don't do certain things e.g. betting on football. One of those probably governs self promotion. This is to avoid the possibility of integrity being affected by inducements offered as part of these self-promotions. Therefore their employment terms and conditions will affect this situation.

They will have been drafted to protect the employee and the employer. They are not something to be messed about with, for the purposes of self-promotion.

 

[Ben448844]

View attachment 2735
Professional referees...cannot sell themselves. Your words at 1:07 on Tuesday. You have suggested they sell themselves.

Back to your point on promoting personal choice... Do you have an employment contract? Do you have a code of conduct as part of your employment? Have you read them?

I don't know about yours but mine provides strong advice on social media use. I suspect that PGMOL contracts have such things as well. Therefore it is part of their terms of employment that they can't/don't do certain things e.g. betting on football. One of those probably governs self promotion. This is to avoid the possibility of integrity being affected by inducements offered as part of these self-promotions. Therefore their employment terms and conditions will affect this situation.

They will have been drafted to protect the employee and the employer. They are not something to be messed about with, for the purposes of self-promotion.

I said they cannot sell themselves because they aren't allowed social media etc. That couldn't be clearer and I think it's a negative.

Yes I do have an employment contract. As do footballers for example, who manage manage to have social media accounts, do interviews etc and remain within the confines of their contractual obligations.

How do you suggest that referee numbers are increased? You have poured scorn on the thought of attempting to improve the image of referees through the means in which I suggested, how do you suggest we encourage Moreton tske up the whistle and indeed to improve the current negative perception of refereeing from the general public?

 

[Brian Hamilton]

I said they cannot sell themselves because they aren't allowed social media etc. That couldn't be clearer and I think it's a negative.

Yes I do have an employment contract. As do footballers for example, who manage manage to have social media accounts, do interviews etc and remain within the confines of their contractual obligations.

How do you suggest that referee numbers are increased? You have poured scorn on the thought of attempting to improve the image of referees through the means in which I suggested, how do you suggest we encourage Moreton tske up the whistle and indeed to improve the current negative perception of refereeing from the general public?

As already identified throughout this thread and supported by the numbers on the latest FA poster we don’t need more to take up the whistle. We need more to stick with it when the initial rush of excitement and adrenalin has passed and they are left facing 22 players alone, week in, week out.

The way to do that is to address the points raised by an earlier contributor to this thread

https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/ref-course.12699/#post-134653 @RobOda

who listed the reasons why new referees don’t stick at it.

 

[Big Cat]

As already identified throughout this thread and supported by the numbers on the latest FA poster we don’t need more to take up the whistle. We need more to stick with it when the initial rush of excitement and adrenalin has passed and they are left facing 22 players alone, week in, week out.

The way to do that is to address the points raised by an earlier contributor to this thread (on my phone so not easy to flick back) who listed the reasons why new referees don’t stick at it.

With so many kids on the courses, the stats are surely meaningless. The courses only attract a minority of people with any real intent to commit to refereeing

 

[OIREF!]

I've had "you've never played ref" several times. " Not at this level mate no". Doesn't help in all honesty but I couldn't resist

You could try 'whatever level I played at was a lot higher than you're ever reffed'

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I've had "you've never played ref" several times. " Not at this level mate no". Doesn't help in all honesty but I couldn't resist

Try, 'They always try and match the referee with the standard expected on the day! The best referees tend to get the best footballers!!!

 

[alexgr]

With so many kids on the courses, the stats are surely meaningless. The courses only attract a minority of people with any real intent to commit to refereeing

This. Out of my course of 32, 30 were doing it for DofE (all raised their hands when asked).

 

[G.lyons]

I went on my county's fa page to look something up and noticed that the coirse to become a referee is now £165... £165!!!!!!

My previous county, as I was now curious, was £20 cheaper. But still, £145 is a lot.

Is it to discourage those to avoid wasting trainers time? Cost of admin (can it really be that high)? Facility hire?

If 20 people paid £165, that's £3300 so would be more than enough surely for venue hire, especially knowing my county have a purpose built facility so unless they are losing out on other bookings it wouldn't cost much other than the tutors to put this show on.

I see that apparently 5,000 refs take the course each year but it's retaining them that is the issue, but surely a greater number of refs taking the course via a reduced fee could see more involved the following seasons.

Last season I saw my old county doing promotions to encourage women and ethnic "minorities" to take up refereeing. Not sure how this went but, and this may sound racist but it's not my angle here, not seen anything for the ethnic "majority".

I was contemplating paying for the course for my brother for when he hangs up his gloves. But it's an awful lot of money if I'm honest, regardless of the money that could be made from refereeing.

What are others views on the pricing?

Could they do something like pay £150, £50 Is for the course at. £50 back after year 1 completion in a way like promotion scheme is set up, x amount of games, and 2nd £50 is used as a bond for promotion (it's £50 in my county for the promotion bond). This would make it seem cheaper for the course and encourage them to progress the ladder too.

Cheshire FA have just ran a course for BAME and females... Course cost 160 but once you've completed 5 games and returned your paperwork they refund you 50%. But i reckon get the money back quickly if ref regular. Minimum amount for refereeing for my area is u8s 25 or 30 mins each way you get £15 minimum. U9 to about u13 r ages from £16 to £24 and that's again only 30 to 35 mins each way. Then u16 40 mins each £20 to £28 then open age games 40 to 45 each way at about £30 to £36. Areas leagues and ages will depend on your ref fee but it isn't to bad so you'll get money back quickly.

 

[RobOda]

Try, 'They always try and match the referee with the standard expected on the day! The best referees tend to get the best footballers!!!

Believe it or not...

A club in the local top league actually went and asked the Ref's officer to create a team of 'elite' referees for that division only. It was batted back that only the actual Welsh Premier League will have 'elite' referees, but the fact that a club at local level is even asking beggars belief and I think shows they don't understand the structuring of the refereeing circuit...

 

[OIREF!]

Believe it or not...

A club in the local top league actually went and asked the Ref's officer to create a team of 'elite' referees for that division only. It was batted back that only the actual Welsh Premier League will have 'elite' referees, but the fact that a club at local level is even asking beggars belief and I think shows they don't understand the structuring of the refereeing circuit...

I don't know what exactly a local league are expecting as an 'elite' referee and it is a strange that a club rather than the league would make such a request. In principle, I don't see it as a particularly radical concept and maybe just a reflection of what happens informally anyway. I referee at youth and amateur level and while there are no 'elite' referees the match secretaries are quite open that they allocate the more experienced and dependable referees to the bigger matches. I think that is correct and generally acceptable to referees and clubs.

 

[IslandReferee]

I once was offered some gift cards for our volunteer league here which I took part in for 6 years. Never saw one. I spent over 300 of my own earnings as a referee and assignor here to buy the new recruits some nice yellow shirts this year. In the states we spend money to become certified as well and I agree with you that sometimes the course and fees are too high. Maybe they will change but maybe they will not. I just keep pushing on and paying my license fee knowing that I get far more joy out of the game than the money I put into it. I personally would pay more but I am borderline cray cray