A&H

Ref course

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ladbroke8745

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I went on my county's fa page to look something up and noticed that the coirse to become a referee is now £165... £165!!!!!!

My previous county, as I was now curious, was £20 cheaper. But still, £145 is a lot.

Is it to discourage those to avoid wasting trainers time? Cost of admin (can it really be that high)? Facility hire?

If 20 people paid £165, that's £3300 so would be more than enough surely for venue hire, especially knowing my county have a purpose built facility so unless they are losing out on other bookings it wouldn't cost much other than the tutors to put this show on.

I see that apparently 5,000 refs take the course each year but it's retaining them that is the issue, but surely a greater number of refs taking the course via a reduced fee could see more involved the following seasons.

Last season I saw my old county doing promotions to encourage women and ethnic "minorities" to take up refereeing. Not sure how this went but, and this may sound racist but it's not my angle here, not seen anything for the ethnic "majority".

I was contemplating paying for the course for my brother for when he hangs up his gloves. But it's an awful lot of money if I'm honest, regardless of the money that could be made from refereeing.

What are others views on the pricing?

Could they do something like pay £150, £50 Is for the course at. £50 back after year 1 completion in a way like promotion scheme is set up, x amount of games, and 2nd £50 is used as a bond for promotion (it's £50 in my county for the promotion bond). This would make it seem cheaper for the course and encourage them to progress the ladder too.
 
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I’d describe refereeing as my hobby.

Most hobbies end up costing you money, from pennies to hundreds or thousands of pounds

However, I reckon my hobby of refereeing leaves me a few quid up every month - win win!

It is a barrier to entry, but does also deter the tyre kickers. My bigger gripe was having to pay a tenner to do the pre-course evening to see if I wanted to do the revere course. This did seem like a waste of time
 
Not sure how many teaching hours are involved in the referee course these days but I'm guessing it's got to be at least 25?

With that in mind, you're getting the services of a professional referee tutor for circa £6.60 an hour. That's pretty cheap by any standard. I reckon I'd be lucky to enlist the services of any professional person, be it builder, hairdresser, solicitor, personal trainer etc for as little as that.

At the end of the day, a new candidate is shelling out £165 for something that has the potential to earn them thousands over a protracted period of time. Even doing a basic National Pool Lifeguard Qualification will cost around £50 more as an example. Youngsters these days spend far more on Playstation/XBox, new trainers etc than £145.

I don't think the course cost is a "barrier" at all. I fail to see how it could actually be cheaper. :)
 
I appreciate the value for money arguments but I'm shocked to hear that it can cost up to £165 for the referees course. Here in the north of Scotland my local RA has a course starting in January with quoted prices of £35 and £15 for concessions.
 
Pop down to Wales?

It's £80 here, and it is online only, so one 'introduction' class and then you do it yourself online.

There's a practical session done after you finish the exam for positioning, whistling technique etc. You 'recoup' your costs if you referee four matches.

The £80 pays for the course and your kit, whistles, flags, red and yellow cards etc.

I think if you go to the course via a club referral, the FAW (I think, or the county FA) will subside £30 of the cost of the course as well, so £50 for all that. Not too bad.

Downsides? It's online only, so not much scope to discuss things in a room with fellow potential refs and a tutor like in the old days.

ladbroke8745 said:
but surely a greater number of refs taking the course via a reduced fee could see more involved the following seasons.
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I disagree with that, I think referee retention numbers have been low for a long while. I did my course again last season (£25) and I think we still had the majority of the class quit within a few months.

I think the retention problem is more multi-faceted:

1. Commitment issues - It takes up your weekend early on and your midweek evenings late on and this can be a hassle for some who have other commitments, kids, family, work etc.

2. People underestimate the level of fitness you need to be anything other than a centre-circle referee. Bear in mind some people are joining at 30-40, this effort can be a massive turn off for them especially if you're already unfit and you're the first choice for dressing up as Santa come Christmas (like me!)

3. Abuse - if they're unlucky enough to face such abuse in the first few games, then that's off-putting. Sometimes even harmless banter can be offputting, especially for a new, nervous, unfit referee.

4. It's challenging - You need the right mentality to do it, we've seen plenty of interesting characters on here (or I have in the short time I've been here) and some people just don't adapt to refereeing. Even taking aside the fitness and abuse situations, it's still a potential pressure game.

5. The weather - Let's be honest, even the most dedicated referee has woken up on a Saturday morning, looked out the window and went 'jeez, I hope today's called off...' I went out to referee in Storm Callum (yes, my game was on!) how many new referee's (or even experienced ones) are going to be arsed with that? As it happened, the away team didn't turn up for that, so I got the day off in the end.

6. Paperwork - I don't think new referees quite realise that they do have paperwork to fill in post-match. Team-sheets have to be sent in, cautions and sending offs - and not everyone is tracking everything correctly early on. This one can go hand in hand with the abuse as well, clamp down on it, and you have more paperwork. Don't, and you have more abuse.

7. Training opportunities can be limited - Society meetings are once a month here, you can't go for promotion in your first year now either. I'm unsure if you get an assessment in your first year to help etc, but I can imagine if you're on your own it's very isolating and you just have to get by, this isn't for everyone.

That's a lot of things to be dealing with. There's not enough manpower I think to support each new referee that joins early on etc. It's not an issue getting the referees out there, it's keeping them coming out that's where the problem lies imo.
 
I don't think the cost of the course is a significant factor when considering the shortage of referees
The numbers enrolling are misleading because the huge majority are school kids, some of which are for GCSE or Duke of Edinburgh purposes, the rest of which are motivated by match-fees
Abuse is the primary reason for a shortage of referees. Aside from the course fee, a successful recruit must knowingly want to expose themselves to the challenge, many of whom will quickly drop-out once they realise what they've got themselves into
 
Now that the refereeing course involves practical training as well as classroom, you have to look at the cost of hiring facilities as well as the training rooms and paying the instructors. In London and the surrounding counties, hiring a pitch, especially floodlit and 3G, can easily cost £100 per hour, or even more, so it is easy to see where the cost increase has come from. I know of one pitch that I used to book, that was £80 for 2 hours as recently as 8 years ago, it is now £110 per hour. That's a 275% increase in just 8 years, and as well as contributing to the increasing cost of the referee course, it also goes a long way to explain why so many teams have folded.
 
Been qualified for an number of years and remember paying a fee when I did the Introductory course, I Recall the 10 weeks being Classroom based, with 2 observations ro follow
Can't, However remember what it cost me, all those years ago
 
I reckon mine was about £80 from memory, good course, learned loads. Worth it? Yes.... cheap at half the price...
 
RobOda said:
Pop down to Wales?

It's £80 here, and it is online only, so one 'introduction' class and then you do it yourself online.

There's a practical session done after you finish the exam for positioning, whistling technique etc. You 'recoup' your costs if you referee four matches.

The £80 pays for the course and your kit, whistles, flags, red and yellow cards etc.

I think if you go to the course via a club referral, the FAW (I think, or the county FA) will subside £30 of the cost of the course as well, so £50 for all that. Not too bad.

Downsides? It's online only, so not much scope to discuss things in a room with fellow potential refs and a tutor like in the old days.



I disagree with that, I think referee retention numbers have been low for a long while. I did my course again last season (£25) and I think we still had the majority of the class quit within a few months.

I think the retention problem is more multi-faceted:

1. Commitment issues - It takes up your weekend early on and your midweek evenings late on and this can be a hassle for some who have other commitments, kids, family, work etc.

2. People underestimate the level of fitness you need to be anything other than a centre-circle referee. Bear in mind some people are joining at 30-40, this effort can be a massive turn off for them especially if you're already unfit and you're the first choice for dressing up as Santa come Christmas (like me!)

3. Abuse - if they're unlucky enough to face such abuse in the first few games, then that's off-putting. Sometimes even harmless banter can be offputting, especially for a new, nervous, unfit referee.

4. It's challenging - You need the right mentality to do it, we've seen plenty of interesting characters on here (or I have in the short time I've been here) and some people just don't adapt to refereeing. Even taking aside the fitness and abuse situations, it's still a potential pressure game.

5. The weather - Let's be honest, even the most dedicated referee has woken up on a Saturday morning, looked out the window and went 'jeez, I hope today's called off...' I went out to referee in Storm Callum (yes, my game was on!) how many new referee's (or even experienced ones) are going to be arsed with that? As it happened, the away team didn't turn up for that, so I got the day off in the end.

6. Paperwork - I don't think new referees quite realise that they do have paperwork to fill in post-match. Team-sheets have to be sent in, cautions and sending offs - and not everyone is tracking everything correctly early on. This one can go hand in hand with the abuse as well, clamp down on it, and you have more paperwork. Don't, and you have more abuse.

7. Training opportunities can be limited - Society meetings are once a month here, you can't go for promotion in your first year now either. I'm unsure if you get an assessment in your first year to help etc, but I can imagine if you're on your own it's very isolating and you just have to get by, this isn't for everyone.

That's a lot of things to be dealing with. There's not enough manpower I think to support each new referee that joins early on etc. It's not an issue getting the referees out there, it's keeping them coming out that's where the problem lies imo.
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These factors (thanks for the list @RobOda) are more of a barrier than the cost. Fewer than 5% of new referees are retained for their second season. Think about that. Out of a typical room of 24, 1 or 2 might still be giving it a go next September.

There is simply too much football and not enough referees. You have so many junior teams all wanting Clattenberg or Webb to turn out each week for them. All the leagues not in the National League System (below Step 7), including the Vets, the U21s, the U23s, 5-a-side, 6-a-side, PowerLeagues, etc. and that's before you consider the academies, the growth of the Women's game, all trying to be serviced by a shrinking pool of match officials.

And all of them want a higher standard of referee than their level of football merits.
 
Which is why I think my thinking could be a good thing to encourage them to stay.

£150 pays for the course.
You get £50 back if you done xx amount of games after 1 full season/year.
You the get enrolled on to the promotion scheme with £50 bond coming from that £150 and if successful you get it back (or can roll it to the next season for promotion again). If you fail you don't get it back or get another go at promotion, and until promotion occurs you don't see it.

I see it as an incentive to improve. If you were offered the chance to earn £50 back AND promotion then people would probably stay in.
When you also factor promotion requires you to lay a bond down (certainly in my county) it all adds up and, I agree with what's been said, you can get it back by being in the middle, you can also argue you first 5 games are unpaid.
 
What about offering a bonus for cards received at the CFA..... a pound for each yellow and a fiver for reds. Tenner for an abandonment... We could have a County weekly referee cash prize too!! There could be League tables, promotion and relegation from the Referees Bonus Club!!!

Watch them blooming cards flow.... who needs sin bins when there are targets to achieve!!

Remember, the first rule of Bonus Club though!!!!!! :devil:
 
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None of what I suggested is anywhere near what you are trying say, which I take as more sarcasm but off the road entirely.

I initially saw prices were high, that's what I came to discuss but seems like many like high prices. So in theory this "job" is only available to those that can genuinely afford it in the first place. No other "job" makes you pay for courses.
So, as been mentioned, we see a small percentage of people retained each year after taking it up and obviously it can be many things. Number 1 reason for the majority at my more recent course. It's better than a paper round. Don't get me wrong, we don't do it solely for the love of the game. But for these youngsters that is all they care about. These types are rarely going to stick at it. Some come to realise they do like it and stay but a large number quit after a year because they can now do proper jobs.
But maybe we are pricing out the ones that can and want to do it, which is why either dropping the price or giving an incentive works for me. Yes the deficit has to be gained from somewhere, if there is one, but this way you may have more qualify, and more retained.
 
Richard smith said:
Been qualified for an number of years and remember paying a fee when I did the Introductory course, I Recall the 10 weeks being Classroom based, with 2 observations ro follow
Can't, However remember what it cost me, all those years ago
Click to expand...

I originally took the course way back in 2001 where it was just £8 for 8, 1 and a half to 2 hours a week theory with a little outside work for flag techniques in the field outside. The 8th week was a theory exam and a practical in which we were shown pictures and asked to describe the situation and our action, if any.
 
£135 in Cambridgeshire but also included CRB check full up to date nike kit 2 whistles wallet and cards lanyard flags and the safe guarding course. 2 whole days of mainly practical exercises with a little bit of classroom and then the exam. A club put me through mine and i reffed X amount of games for free for them. This was 3 years ago
 
CRB (or DBS) is free in Wales. The FAW cover the cost I believe. You get an ID badge for it as well now.
 
Course is changing in January in England with more elements carried out online and the practical training is cut back to one day. May well see a fall in the cost of the course.
 
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