A&H

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santa sangria

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
VAR is so rubbish.
I tuned in for injury time, just in time to see another match ruined.
"It makes a mockery..." of the whole sport.
(No way I'm paying to watch this rubbish!)
 
The Referee Store
Clear and obvious error for something that’s clearly and obviously not a pen in the first place. Know the guidance is different in Europe but it’s just appalling from everyone who’s let it get to the point where that is a pen.
 
That was very harsh.

Nowhere else on the field is that given. Hit his chest first and then a tiny glance off his elbow which looked to be in a very natural position.

Not a C&O error in my opinion.
 
Let’s not blame VAR for that decision. It was all on the ref. VAR just said, go take a look. He’s one of the best refs in the world and he says it’s a penalty, so are the rest of us wrong. How come non of us would give that. What are we missing.
 
Therealcjhill said:
Let’s not blame VAR for that decision. It was all on the ref. VAR just said, go take a look. He’s one of the best refs in the world and he says it’s a penalty, so are the rest of us wrong. How come non of us would give that. What are we missing.
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Is the guidance different regarding C&O in the Champions League?

The earlier one was more of a penalty and that one was ruled out by VAR.
 
Therealcjhill said:
Let’s not blame VAR for that decision. It was all on the ref. VAR just said, go take a look. He’s one of the best refs in the world and he says it’s a penalty, so are the rest of us wrong. How come non of us would give that. What are we missing.
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When have you EVER seen a UEFA referee go to the screen and not change his decision? It just doesn't happen.

This is where the handball law rewrite has caused real problems. Under the old law it bounced off his body so clearly couldn't have been handling, for reasons that no one knows they removed that. Even with that clause still in place I don't think it was intentional handling, but it gives the officials an opportunity.
 
Therealcjhill said:
Let’s not blame VAR for that decision. It was all on the ref. VAR just said, go take a look. He’s one of the best refs in the world and he says it’s a penalty, so are the rest of us wrong. How come non of us would give that. What are we missing.
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No, VAR says your decision was clearly and obviously wrong. The ref is against a room of peers so of course always goes with the VAR “decision”.
 
santa sangria said:
No, VAR says your decision was clearly and obviously wrong. The ref is against a room of peers so of course always goes with the VAR “decision”.
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But he doesn’t have to and shouldn’t. He knows what HB is. VAR have just said, you might want to take a 2nd look in case you missed something. He should go over, take a look and say, thanks fellas but I was correct first time.
 
RustyRef said:
When have you EVER seen a UEFA referee go to the screen and not change his decision? It just doesn't happen.

This is where the handball law rewrite has caused real problems. Under the old law it bounced off his body so clearly couldn't have been handling, for reasons that no one knows they removed that. Even with that clause still in place I don't think it was intentional handling, but it gives the officials an opportunity.
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I’ve just spoke to a PL ref mate, I asked, what are us Grassroots refs not getting and he said, no way it’s HB. So I think even I’ve got to the point of not understanding football anymore.
 
RustyRef said:
This is where the handball law rewrite has caused real problems. Under the old law it bounced off his body so clearly couldn't have been handling, for reasons that no one knows they removed that. Even with that clause still in place I don't think it was intentional handling, but it gives the officials an opportunity.
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Not so. Before they rewrote it, the “off the body” didn’t apply if the handling was deliberate or unnaturally bigger. So if (as must have happened here) the R concluded the arm was making him unnaturally bigger, that wouldn’t have applied and it would have been a PK then, too.
 
Therealcjhill said:
But he doesn’t have to and shouldn’t. He knows what HB is. VAR have just said, you might want to take a 2nd look in case you missed something. He should go over, take a look and say, thanks fellas but I was correct first time.
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But that’s not at all what the VAR recommending a review means. The VAR is only authorized to recommend an on field review of the VAR believes there was a C&O error. Yes, it is ultimately the R’s decision, but there is a lot more weight on the recommendation for review than “you might want to take a look.”
 
socal lurker said:
Not so. Before they rewrote it, the “off the body” didn’t apply if the handling was deliberate or unnaturally bigger. So if (as must have happened here) the R concluded the arm was making him unnaturally bigger, that wouldn’t have applied and it would have been a PK then, too.
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That isn't correct. The law had these exclusions for intentional handling ...

Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
• directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
• if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
• when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body

The "above offences" were ...

It is usually an offence if a player:

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
• the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
• the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

There is zero doubt here that Livramento had made his body unnaturally bigger or was above the shoulder level. It could not have been deemed handling if the ball deflected off his body onto his arm that was fairly close to his side, as was the case tonight.
 
I disagree. The player specifically moved his arm out of the way of the ball before it hit his thigh. The law doesn’t cover this specifically.
 
socal lurker said:
But that’s not at all what the VAR recommending a review means. The VAR is only authorized to recommend an on field review of the VAR believes there was a C&O error. Yes, it is ultimately the R’s decision, but there is a lot more weight on the recommendation for review than “you might want to take a look.”
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Yes I agree. VAR is saying, we think you might have missed something. So we’ve now got 3 of the best refs in the game all saying it’s a penalty. But I’ve not seen a single other fan. Ref. Pundit. Ex player. Even fans of other teams that think it’s a penalty. So something is drastically wrong.
 
socal lurker said:
But that’s not at all what the VAR recommending a review means. The VAR is only authorized to recommend an on field review of the VAR believes there was a C&O error. Yes, it is ultimately the R’s decision, but there is a lot more weight on the recommendation for review than “you might want to take a look.”
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Especially in UEFA, as recommendations never get ignored. And this comes down to management, referees should be encouraged to ignore reviews if they think their original decision was correct. But that then chucks the VAR under the bus as they should only be recommending a review if the original decision was clearly and obviously incorrect.

I've always shied away from this, but I think it is now time to move to club VAR reviews. Get rid of VAR, each team gets two challenges per game and when that happens the referee himself goes to have a look at it.
 
santa sangria said:
I disagree. The player specifically moved his arm out of the way of the ball before it hit his thigh. The law doesn’t cover this specifically.
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Are you referring to the earlier penalty shout against Lewis smiley?
 
This is where the PL officiating is right in not giving these handball offenses as penalties(unless the hand is above the head as per the Luton Wolves game) because it's so harsh. It's not a diabolical decision by the ref/VAR, by UEFA's protocol that will be given a penalty but it shouldn't really.

Of course if it was given for the English side there wouldn't be so much outrage but it shouldn't hide from the fact that UEFA's strict interpretation of handball is a joke especially as the previous one against Miley I think it was, wasn't reccomended for a review by the VAR.
 
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