no stepped approach to dissent

[lalec03]

Yesterday i reffed blue v reds adults game.

In the 2nd minute i gave offside against a blue player. Ball is dead at this point.

Blues goalkeeper shouts from his goal line (80 yards away roughly) "that's never offside ref. Have a word with the lino".

How would the goalkeeper have any credible view - anyway.

I get to the keeper and sin binned him as i don't think the stepped approach as being right here. You cannot get away with that behaviour IMHO.

Firstly would anybody have done anything different here?

Secondly the correct restart was the offside free-kick - not a IDFK from the goalkeeper - right?

There were no more cards in the game and the keeper was big enough to apologise after.

Personally I would have avoided the sin bin, especially if it’s against the goalkeeper it just causes more hassle than it’s worth. The fact that it’s in the 2nd minute as well means that for the next 88 minutes I would have to remain consistent on sin binning for dissent, which I find causes more issues.

I would not have even given the goalkeeper a response, ignore it, if the behaviour continues throughout ask the captain to keep him sweet, and then after that, take disciplinary action. You learn by your experiences and overtime you will build up a tolerance, I’m at a point now where I’m able to absorb a lot of flack from players, and I find the stepped approach to dissent with the co-operation of the team captains works well, yes the odd sin bin after I find the diplomatic approach hasn’t worked, but by that point it shows players that I will take action after warnings given.

I would be interested in hearing what other referees think of letting a player off for an OFFINABUS offence, as I had this in a tight quarter final, and I didn’t want to make the game about me or influence the result. Somehow I feel that typing this I will get told off for even dignifying this suggestion.

 

[socal lurker]

I would be interested in hearing what other referees think of letting a player off for an OFFINABUS offence, as I had this in a tight quarter final, and I didn’t want to make the game about me or influence the result. Somehow I feel that typing this I will get told off for even dignifying this suggestion.

Not sending a player off who has earned it is influencing the game just as much as sending the player off is. It drives me nuts when refs are blamed for changing the game--its' the player that committed the misconduct, not the referee. That said, I think the question is really how red the OFFINABUS was. If it was borderline, I'm willing to cut some slack in a tight situation. But if it is clearly earned, the sanction needs to be given.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

How can a keeper, 80 yards away, disagree? What would his argument be based upon? Which makes me ask the question the keeper's motives here.

This player was mouthing off pointlessly. If no action was taken by me i would have been unable to take action against anybody else (consistency in any one game) as it would of been unfair?

You said about opening yourself up for criticism if you don't bin the next one - if i'd binned the next one that player would of said "the keeper got away with it. How come i don't?"

In this game nobody else did this as i had made the point (very early).

He can disagree because he's a keeper and as we know they are a special kind of player and person. Who else would pay their subs, train on their own, get the blame for every goal conceded (whether justified or not) and still turn out every week?

He was just lonely and wanted to make sure no one forgot he was there. Choose your battles. You asked for advice and comment. Just because what many have said doesn't agree with your action, doesn't mean we're wrong.

 

[lincs22]

Yesterday i reffed blue v reds adults game.

In the 2nd minute i gave offside against a blue player. Ball is dead at this point.

Blues goalkeeper shouts from his goal line (80 yards away roughly) "that's never offside ref. Have a word with the lino".

How would the goalkeeper have any credible view - anyway.

I get to the keeper and sin binned him as i don't think the stepped approach as being right here. You cannot get away with that behaviour IMHO.

Firstly would anybody have done anything different here?

Secondly the correct restart was the offside free-kick - not a IDFK from the goalkeeper - right?

There were no more cards in the game and the keeper was big enough to apologise after.

A lot will come from the knowledge of the teams. Yes, the sin bin was the right decision today as there was no come back.

In the dark, old days the instructions was t manage the game hard for the first 10 minutes, and see how it goes. That instruction should still apply and if you have 2 gobby teams, and early sin bin shows you won't be messed around with. But you have to deal with incidents 2, 3,etc in the same manner.

People have said this would not be expected atL4 refereeing - players at that level are better managed and the keepers won't be shouting such stupidity from 80 yards.

A good way of managing the incident is to get the keeper to run 50 yards to you and his Captain for a b0ll0cking, and then having to run back. For a keeper to have to run 100 yards in a game will be enough punishment.

 

[Kent Ref]

I think that again it comes down to what aspirations you have as a referee. At L4 and above there is absolutely no way that is being supported as a caution, whilst at grass roots it will be.

You have gone quiet?

 

[JamesL]

You have gone quiet?

Ok so the point I made and removed as it felt grumpy and OTT has come back round!!!

What are you looking for from this thread? To the onlooker it would appear that you are simply trolling and looking for an argument or for people to disagree with you, so you can argue you are right?

If you don't want people's opinion, particularly when it doesnt fall in line with your own, I guess specifically asking for it with questions such as:

Firstly would anybody have done anything different here?

is not for you.

Of course we are all for debate, it is public forum after all, but your posts, lik above, just seem provocative rather than someone who wants a sensible debate.

 

[Kent Ref]

Ok so the point I made and removed as it felt grumpy and OTT has come back round!!!

What are you looking for from this thread? To the onlooker it would appear that you are simply trolling and looking for an argument or for people to disagree with you, so you can argue you are right?

If you don't want people's opinion, particularly when it doesnt fall in line with your own, I guess specifically asking for it with questions such as:

is not for you.

Of course we are all for debate, it is public forum after all, but your posts, lik above, just seem provocative rather than someone who wants a sensible debate.

i was looking for rusty to tell me his theory about aspirations and promotion.

 

[RustyRef]

i was looking for rusty to tell me his theory about aspirations and promotion.

Ah, I must have missed the memo that said people must reply within a set time period

A sin bin like this probably wouldn't stop you getting to L5. It might be problematic at 5 to 4, as there has been no attempt at a stepped approach for something most observers would see as a fairly low level offence. It would absolutely become a problem if you were to get L4, you would be surprising everyone in the ground with such an early sin bin, especially for a keeper. You clubs marks would get battered, but there is also every chance observers would hammer you for not trying to manage situations.

 

[santa sangria]

To be fair, no one on here is suggesting that you take 'no action'. The debate is simply what is the best form of action. Whilst this ticks the box for being "Public" (and therefore requires some form of response) because it's not "Provocative" or hugely "Personal" I'd be seeing this as the perfect opportunity to nip in the bud any future issues .. taking the time to stop the game and then clearly communicate to the GK and everyone else (via words and body language) that you weren't ok with what he did. As others have said, this actually increases your opportunity to take action against other transgressors as you've set out your stall really clearly. That said, what you did is certainly not incorrect, just possibly sub-optimal.

Excellent post

 

[zarathustra]

Personally sounds a bit soft to me, if the keeper had ran 80 meters to argue with you then that would be a completely different kettle of fish, or if he’d been chirping away for most of the match.

Of course, you weren’t wrong to sin bin him, we have to deal with incidents in the way we feel will best benefit our match control.