A&H

New referee first game witnout mentor tips

Pwizardo said:
We use CARs where I'm based, and like others have said, they get told to put the flag up if they're 110% sure the player was in an offside position. It's still my decision then whether they were committing an offence or not.

I generally find if you make sure they know this in the brief there's no issues if you overrule in the game (especially if you mention this to captains during the initial talk).

The only real 'contentious' situation is when someone's flagged but a teammate goes for the ball, but a shout of "He's not involved" generally keeps the game moving.

That said I did have to book my CAR the other week because he felt I wasn't being fair with when I was stopping the game for injuries in a youth match (U13/14)
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I'd rather not have to bother with them at all,to be honest. 'Ins and outs please gents/ladies and I will do the offsides' is a familiar statement I will make. It would be nice to have that much trust in club officials though.
 
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SpecsSaver66 said:
I'd rather not have to bother with them at all,to be honest. 'Ins and outs please gents/ladies and I will do the offsides' is a familiar statement I will make. It would be nice to have that much trust in club officials though.
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Offsides to me feel impossible. I've never actually had to call offsides as middle. Not sure I would have a chance at it.
 
SpecsSaver66 said:
My recent course taught me that the new acronym is PIG.
Plays the Ball.
Interfers with an opponent.
Gains an Advantage.
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I think he means in respect to judging player in offside position without the help of an assistant, be that club or neutral
 
JamesL said:
I think he means in respect to judging player in offside position without the help of an assistant, be that club or neutral
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I can't imagine allowing no input to an offside decision even with ARs. The acronym would help both given how many ARs in most recreational games would signal before the offending player touches the ball,other than maybe to avoid a GK and striker collision. You'd need some input at least,I'd have thought?
 
SpecsSaver66 said:
I can't imagine allowing no input to an offside decision even with ARs. The acronym would help both given how many ARs in most recreational games would signal before the offending player touches the ball,other than maybe to avoid a GK and striker collision. You'd need some input at least,I'd have thought?
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Honestly struggling to add context to your post here!
Offside is always, ultimately, the referees decision. The AR signals when a player may be penalised for offside, the referee makes the final judgement whether the player is penalised.
I was replying to the fact that when @OldNavyRef says
OldNavyRef said:
Offsides to me feel impossible.
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I believe he was referring to judging the players position as opposed to what an offside offence is, so P.I.G. is not really helpful, because P.I.G. only matters once you know the player who Ps, Is, Or Gs is offside in the first place.

like I say CARs giving offside was alien to me, but it seems that most areas have CARs do them and actually, areas such as the north west are the outliers in that respect.

it works well because the only info you need off the CAR is PIOP and who... But with the training and a good brief a lot, at least here in Cornwall, do a good job.
 
JamesL said:
Honestly struggling to add context to your post here!
Offside is always, ultimately, the referees decision. The AR signals when a player may be penalised for offside, the referee makes the final judgement whether the player is penalised.
I was replying to the fact that when @OldNavyRef says

I believe he was referring to judging the players position as opposed to what an offside offence is, so P.I.G. is not really helpful, because P.I.G. only matters once you know the player who Ps, Is, Or Gs is offside in the first place.

like I say CARs giving offside was alien to me, but it seems that most areas have CARs do them and actually, areas such as the north west are the outliers in that respect.

it works well because the only info you need off the CAR is PIOP and who... But with the training and a good brief a lot, at least here in Cornwall, do a good job.
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There is absolutely no training for matchday ARs. Its just either the coach or one of the parents. This why they do ins and outs only. It must be nice to have trustworthy parents or coaches but out on a field in the middle of nowhere with no friends around and hoping to avoid as much confrontation from the spectators is why the ref has to be sole arbitor of offside decisions. The chance of an obviously biased decision resulting in influencing a result could easily turn into fist fights. Incidentally,I had to abandon an Under 13s match last season because of a wholesale brawl between the kids where the original tussle was from mid field battle for a throw in! These are the kind of situations we are regularly put in here.
 
Like I said I have experienced both sides of the coin.
SpecsSaver66 said:
There is absolutely no training for matchday ARs. Its just either the coach or one of the parents. This why they do ins and outs only.
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That's because the status quo in your area is ball out of play only.
SpecsSaver66 said:
It must be nice to have trustworthy parents or coaches but out on a field in the middle of nowhere with no friends around and hoping to avoid as much confrontation from the spectators is why the ref has to be sole arbitor of offside decisions.
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The referee does not need to be the sole arbiter. It is working all around the country where stand ins are supporting the referee with offsides. Why would you not accept any help at all when you get the final say anyway and can over rule the obvious cheating.
SpecsSaver66 said:
The chance of an obviously biased decision resulting in influencing a result could easily turn into fist fights.
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This can just as easily happen with ball out of play decisions, especially at the goal line.
SpecsSaver66 said:
Incidentally,I had to abandon an Under 13s match last season because of a wholesale brawl between the kids where the original tussle was from mid field battle for a throw in! These are the kind of situations we are regularly put in here.
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Nothing to do with offside then?
 
JamesL said:
Like I said I have experienced both sides of the coin.

That's because the status quo in your area is ball out of play only.

The referee does not need to be the sole arbiter. It is working all around the country where stand ins are supporting the referee with offsides. Why would you not accept any help at all when you get the final say anyway and can over rule the obvious cheating.

This can just as easily happen with ball out of play decisions, especially at the goal line.

Nothing to do with offside then?
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The mention of the brawl was to counter your point about allowing club ARs to give biased decisions and the kind of incidents that are not uncommon in my area at the possible outcome of such decisions. Allowing their influence on offsides would result in even more incidents over a 'more serious' decision. Believe me I've been involved in Grassroots in my area for about 30 years at different levels and know the temperaments which exist.
 
SpecsSaver66 said:
The mention of the brawl was to counter your point about allowing club ARs to give biased decisions and the kind of incidents that are not uncommon in my area at the possible outcome of such decisions. Allowing their influence on offsides would result in even more incidents over a 'more serious' decision. Believe me I've been involved in Grassroots in my area for about 30 years at different levels and know the temperaments which exist.
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You seem to be forgetting that I was born and raised in "your" area. Played as a youth and refereed for best part of 8 or 9 years so I am not speaking from a position of uncertainty.
Your assertions it can't work are strange given evidence to the contrary of it working all around the country.
 
JamesL said:
You seem to be forgetting that I was born and raised in "your" area. Played as a youth and refereed for best part of 8 or 9 years so I am not speaking from a position of uncertainty.
Your assertions it can't work are strange given evidence to the contrary of it working all around the country.
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I didn't say 'Can't' to other areas of the country,I am genuinely glad there are areas where you can, but in my area I don't think it will be on the agenda any time soon.
 
Having done games where only one side provided a CAR, I found myself massively compromising my positioning in order to account for the lack of AR and still can't imagine how judging offside from the middle is any more than a guess. For a close offside, would I rather toss a coin from the middle, or take the judgement of someone in the right position who I can at least get a sense of if they're being honest or not?
 
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