A&H

Manager turns up 5 mins into first half

I

Isaac

Isaac
Level 7 Referee
Reffing at 11 in the morning, turn up to the pitch but it's been double booked. The home manager decides we will play 5 mins down the road. No one seemed too annoyed.

I get to the pitch and speak to the home manager before game (the usual chat you have). Go over to the away team and speak to the guy warming up them up. I presumed he was the manager and he didn't say he wasn't.

We kick off 5 mins late but I thought it was fair enough considering the venue had changed.

Next thing I know some guy comes running on to the pitch saying. Lads stop, we're going. I stop the game and ask who he is. He replies "I'm the manager, how dare you start the game without me and my captain, we're leaving". I eventually manage to calm him down. He says he wants a chat with his players before the game carrys on. The other manager says it's okay so I begrudgingly let them have a minute or two.

What should I have done in this situation (sorry for the mini novel)
 
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I certainly wouldn't be allowing his team chat! I'd be giving him a very firm warning for entering the field like that as well.
 
Guessing you don't get team sheets?

Nothing in the LOTG state the "official manager" has to be present, game has started so like the cap'n I'm telling him to get off the pitch and the game carries on. If he wants to take his team off, that's his decision. Comes with quite a fine and the game will be awarded to the opponent if he wants to go down that route.

Not your issue that he is late. Also not your issue that his players think so little of him that they didn't mention him :)
 
@Isaac - well handled - with the support of the other team ... if they had said "no" and wanted to carry on you would have had a different situation !! ... I guess if they'd said no they may have found an injury from somewhere to allow a quick pep talk ;) ... well done though
 
I had that once.

Manager turned up 30 mins late, at end of game he claimed he didn't have any money to pay me.

Eventually got a cheque through the door from club sec - not happy!
 
PinnerPaul said:
I had that once.

Manager turned up 30 mins late, at end of game he claimed he didn't have any money to pay me.

Eventually got a cheque through the door from club sec - not happy!
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I hope you reported them to the league for late payment.

As a committee, the last thing we want is having clubs not pay referees on the day. If a report of non-payment comes in, they will be fined for that. If not paid within 7 days, then we add a "non-compliance" charge as well. Suddenly a £30 fee becomes £150 in fines and fees. And for any second offence in a year, we will ruin their evening as they will be made to appear at a committee meeting.
 
Nottsman said:
Who did you do the toss with if the nominated captain wasn't there?
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Find the closest player and tell him he is captain for the toss. That all you need him for!
If they won't do it, and the kick-off is late - report them and the committee will fine them accordingly.
 
Similar happened to me last season. Away team had 9 players, with no sign of the manager or any other players arriving. We waited until kick off time and then I advised the away players they would need to start. They refused until the manager arrived. I informed them they have enough players to play and should they refuse I will be packing up, going home and reporting them for refusal to play. They still refused. Just as I was driving off the manager arrives and told me I had to wait a half hour. I informed him that if he did not have enough players I would have waited, but 9 players is enough to start with. I later found out this was the third time they tried this trick. The league did not act on the others.

I am still waiting payment for a game from 5 weeks ago and the league and County know. This is becoming more common I think.
 
Now you may find this hard to believe (!), but I can be a little stubborn and pig headed if I feel I'm in the right and somebody is trying to make me look stupid and incorrect when that is not the case.

Given the circumstances you describe I think I would have had to cut his ranting short, given him a dressing down and a few home truths about his turning up late before telling him firmly and coldly where to stand and shut up, before he ended up missing the remaining 85 mins as well as the first 5.

That said the way you handled it was probably much more diplomatic and probably saw you better in the long term!

Just a question though - was his lateness because of the venue change and messing around or would he have been late anyway?
 
lincs22 said:
I hope you reported them to the league for late payment.

As a committee, the last thing we want is having clubs not pay referees on the day. If a report of non-payment comes in, they will be fined for that. If not paid within 7 days, then we add a "non-compliance" charge as well. Suddenly a £30 fee becomes £150 in fines and fees. And for any second offence in a year, we will ruin their evening as they will be made to appear at a committee meeting.
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Yes I did, no idea if they got fined or not.
 
RegalRef said:
Now you may find this hard to believe (!), but I can be a little stubborn and pig headed if I feel I'm in the right and somebody is trying to make me look stupid and incorrect when that is not the case.

Given the circumstances you describe I think I would have had to cut his ranting short, given him a dressing down and a few home truths about his turning up late before telling him firmly and coldly where to stand and shut up, before he ended up missing the remaining 85 mins as well as the first 5.

That said the way you handled it was probably much more diplomatic and probably saw you better in the long term!

Just a question though - was his lateness because of the venue change and messing around or would he have been late anyway?
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I'm not sure. The pitch was just 5 mins away from the scheduled pitch. But it is a bit hidden. The fact his other players found it 20 mins before ko suggested to me he was just an idiot
 
Nottsman said:
Who did you do the toss with if the nominated captain wasn't there?
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When I called the captains in one of their players came over and didn't mention anything about him not being the captain. I didn't check for an armband but I didn't have any reason to not think he was the captain
 
If he comes forward for coin toss, he is the captain in my eyes.

@Nottsman - why would you question whether someone is captain or not if they come forward for the coin toss?
 
I don't normally, but you would assume that there would have been some confusion as to who was doing the toss if the nominated captain wasn't there?
 
Why would you even care whether the person(s) present for the coin toss were nominated as captains? All that's required is for a coin to be tossed and for the team winning the toss to choose which goal it will attack in the first half. I used to referee in a U14 league where the teams almost never had nominated captains. I would ask if they had captains first, as that is the convention but when they said they didn't, I would usually just pick two players at random.
 
Peter Grove said:
Why would you even care whether the person(s) present for the coin toss were nominated as captains? All that's required is for a coin to be tossed and for the team winning the toss to choose which goal it will attack in the first half. I used to referee in a U14 league where the teams almost never had nominated captains. I would ask if they had captains first, as that is the convention but when they said they didn't, I would usually just pick two players at random.
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I usually like to have the chat with the captains especially in OA and get them on side as soon as possible
 
Denis McCarthy said:
Similar happened to me last season. Away team had 9 players, with no sign of the manager or any other players arriving. We waited until kick off time and then I advised the away players they would need to start. They refused until the manager arrived. I informed them they have enough players to play and should they refuse I will be packing up, going home and reporting them for refusal to play. They still refused. Just as I was driving off the manager arrives and told me I had to wait a half hour. I informed him that if he did not have enough players I would have waited, but 9 players is enough to start with. I later found out this was the third time they tried this trick. The league did not act on the others.

I am still waiting payment for a game from 5 weeks ago and the league and County know. This is becoming more common I think.
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If you don't know the teams well or well enough to trust them, hang on to the match ball until you get paid. Saw a promotion candidate do this a few weeks ago and he was paid within 2 minutes.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
If you don't know the teams well or well enough to trust them, hang on to the match ball until you get paid. Saw a promotion candidate do this a few weeks ago and he was paid within 2 minutes.
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I always get the money before the match starts, even if it means late kick off. The amount of refs in my area that didn't get paid because the managers took off straight away without paying the ref...
 
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